An Atheist State

By : MarcHolt
Views : 317

Although Christianity spread throughout Europe and many parts of the Americas, the rest of the world has had its own beliefs from the earliest times. These beliefs had nothing to do with Christianity. Yet Christian missionaries believe they have a god-given right to go out and try to convert these ‘heathens’ to their beliefs.

The first Christian missionaries to Thailand came as early as the 15th Century. Yet five hundred years later Thailand remains as resolutely Buddhist as it was then. Those of us lucky enough to live in Thailand live in an atheist society.

Yet I wonder how many westerners living here ever give it much thought? Not many, I suspect.

Sure, there are a few practicing Christians here. But for the most part the expatriate community here is devoted to hedonism rather than devout practice.

There are also a few Thai villages scattered around the country that are partly or mostly Christian. I had a maid from one of these villages before I got married. She did an excellent job, often finishing her work by midday. Then she would disappear into her room. One day, I asked her what she was doing in there, because I’d heard her mumbling. She told me she was praying. I suspect she was praying for me, as I often brought home ladies of the night. Or perhaps she was praying for a husband. I guess it worked. She married one of my friends. And I met my current wife and married her!

But before that, a couple of my bar girl friends actually started talking to my maid and at least one left the trade and returned home to Sisaket to open a small beauty shop as a result. I believe she is still there today.

Despite this, it’s always amused me that the Christians have had such an abysmal record in this country. But they have had the same result in other staunchly Buddhist countries too. First Japan, and later China were abject failures. They had limited success in Viet Nam, Cambodia and Laos too.

So, why is it that they cannot dent these atheist’s beliefs? Is there something about Buddhism that makes more sense than Christianity? Or are Sino Asians more inclined to the Buddhist philosophy with its emphasis on internalizing thought and self-salvation?

Does Buddhism offer a better way to live than Christianity?

Many Buddhists I have talked to say yes. Buddhism puts the onus on the practitioner to get their lives in order. There are no moral questions. Buddhism encourages people to come to terms with one’s own weaknesses and overcome them.

Christianity, on the other hand, is paternalistic. Its adherents rely on a hierarchy of priests to dictate what they should believe and do. With an all-powerful god in charge, it’s much easier to believe in Christianity.

Despite this, each religion has had a very strange and opposite effect on its believers.

People in the west faced serious discussion about the origin of man and our place in the universe, especially in the last few Centuries. As more people sought answers and found them, our society evolved to give us a lot more freedom. We became individuals rather than group followers. And as that happened, so belief in the very religion that spawned it has dwindled. More people are coming out of the closet these days and admitting they are atheists and freethinkers.

Here in Asia, the exact opposite has occurred. Even though Buddhism encourages the individual to take care of his own salvation, society has grown to restrict the individual’s rights. What a paradox!

Foreigners in Thailand have a great deal of freedom simply because we can take from it what we want with almost no restrictions. Even though prostitution is illegal, it has grown into a multi-million dollar business because Thai society has no cohesive way to stop it. The restrictive society they have built as a result of their ‘top down’ social system means that those in powerful positions who profit from it can easily stop any opposition.

Walk down any of the popular bar areas and look around you. I bet you not one of those western men drinking beer and playing with the girls believes in any god…unless he is Bacchus!

America has more practicing Christians than any other country in the world. Contrast that to Thailand, which does not believe in any gods. Yet, are the Thais any less moral or worse behaved than the Americans? I doubt it. Despite the often-repeated criticisms of Thailand, the perceived lies, the unreliability of the people, the rampant corruption, living in an atheist country definitely has its benefits.

Some will point to the gun violence in the US and say that there is more violence there. But we can’t quantify that because death by shooting in Thailand is often not recorded as such. And reports are not as well kept as they are in the US. In fact, if one looks at the amount of violence in western countries, Australia and the UK have much higher incidences of grievous bodily harm than the US. This could be simply because the easy availability of guns in the US often means differences are resolved faster with a gun.

But none of this has anything to do with the moral and religious beliefs practiced in each country. For the Christians to be right, they would have to show that Thailand is a lot less moral, and more violent and corrupt than western countries. That is obviously not the case. The only differences are in the degrees of morality, violence and corruption. In a poor country, corruption will be visible at much lower strata of society. In a rich society, corruption is often hidden at the highest levels. But it is there, as the occasional scandals in the US show.

So, how does it feel to live in an atheist society? Have you ever thought about that before? This sure ain’t Kansas any more Toto.

 

© Marc Holt. All rights reserved by the author.


Like this story? Share it with others: Stumble It! Add to Yahoo! My Web Bookmark to Del.icio.us Bookmark to Furl Spurl This! Add to Reddit Bookmark to Newsvine


Related Articles

» In the Wilds of Esarn
» Assimilation. How Does That Work?
» What Brought You To Thailand?
» More Soi News
» Ruminations On Things Thai

Rating

Teen



Comments / Feedback

Dana
April 5, 2008, 23:12

A few things:

Because I can harness my brain synapses and focus them, and because I am capable of more than brain stem jerkings, and because I do not confuse emotion with reason; I have been a lifetime atheist (since the age of 12 when I was asked to join a Church and I refused). The notion of living in a society of mostly atheists has appeal because my sizzling acid comtempt for religion and religious people is complete. However, is that place Thailand?

Is Thailand because of it's Buddhist heritage an atheist country? I am not sure. Why? Because I suspect that when the Thais are praying they are praying to Buddha. They are not supposed to be doing this but that is what they are doing. They have taken an abstract concept and humanized it by making the Buddha into a paternalistic God. They are not atheists. Buddha is God. Buddha is the big Daddy.

Because I am an atheist of lifetime implacable metallic intensity I am sympathetic to Mr. Holt's essay but I suspect that he knows that the Thais have converted the Buddha into a God not very different from the Christian God. Thais are not atheists or even Buddhists. They are God worshipers. Begging and self-pity clothed as religion.

"Please Daddy God send me a husband."

"Please Daddy Buddha cure my wife's illness."

"Please Daddy God Buddha (whatever) help me win the lottery."

Etc.

This is not Buddhism or the reasoned behavior of atheists. Just the Same Old-Same Old tiresome story of humanity stumbling and struggling against uncertainty and mortality and morbidity and loss of dignity.

It can be charming:

I used to pick up a wonderful woman every night at 10:30 at the open air bar opposite the Go-Go next to Superbabies in Soi Diamond on Walking Street in Pattaya. Off we would go to my room at the A.A. Hotel on Soi 13 and we were not going there to discuss how her day went.

Naked and up on the bed; and then it would start. She would kneel facing the headboard and start praying and I would kneel next to her and repeat the prayers and then we would both lower our heads and touch our foreheads to the mattress. This would be repeated about four times with me repeating incomprehensible prayers and she just loving it. Of course I had no idea what she was praying for, and I had no idea what I was repeating.

Then we would bonk like demented rabbits. Thailand.
Marc Holt
April 6, 2008, 09:42

Yes, I am aware of what the Thais have done to Buddha, Dana. But at the end of the day they are atheists. Like anyone with little or no education they are easily led to follow the rituals by the priests/monks and pray. Their prayers are usually ego-centric....gimme, gimme, gimme. Wonderful Woman was probably praying that you would bonk her like a good rabbit. Sounds like her prayers were answered.

I asked my wife if she believed in god. She snorted and said of course not. If that ain't an atheist I don't know what is. You'll get the same answer from any Buddhist.

There was a lot more I wanted to write in this article, but then I'd have to look for a publisher as it would be so long. Religion fascinates me. I am constantly amazed that people buy into it, no matter what brand the priests are selling. As Homer Simpson said, "Why would I want to waste half my Sunday listening to someone telling me I am going to hell?"

Dana
April 6, 2008, 13:31

Attn: Mr. Holt

"Religion fascinates me".

Religion should not fascinate you because it so common. It is the great labeler - THEM and US.

Let's kill THEM because they are not like US.

Boring.
lookpapa
April 7, 2008, 07:59

I don't see Thailand as an atheist country. The last I heard Buddhism was a religion. I agree with Dana. The Thais ascribe divinity to Lord Buddha. They're also quite open to conversion to Christianity. You just got to look at the success of missionaries in Chiang Mai to see how gullible Thais can be.
Dana
April 7, 2008, 10:25

Atheism is not just a lack of belief. It is a lack of belief as the result of intellectual rigor. In other words; atheism is a conclusion or a point-of-view based on thought. It is part of a context.

Find the lone primitive in the Amazon jungle who was raised by monkeys and you will find someone never exposed to paternalistic religious concepts. The intellectual abstract known as 'God' was not introduced to him by the monkeys. So to say he is an atheist is not quite correct.

It is not so much that he is a nonbeliever in God (atheist) as someone who has never been introduced to the idea. Someone who believes in virginity is not the same as a virgin. One is a point-of-view, the other is a condition or state.

So called Buddhism was 500 years old and probably on the way to corruption around the time Jesus was born. That is a long time ago. By the time Buddhism staggered out of India and into China and Southeast Asia some changes were in the offing for the incense burners. The poor Thai today is saddled with a silly religion that includes classical Buddhism, several later regional ideas of Buddhism, animism, witchcraft, paternalism, God, and just straight up begging. No wonder the various shrines in the hotel lobbies and retail stores look so tacky. Anything goes. Any kind of lights, any kind of food offerings, any kind of decorative objects (I have seen small toy motorcycles), any kind of . . . hey, I figure I am lucky I am not fluent in Thai; because if I was fluent in Thai and I asked Thais to explain their religion to me I would probably be thunderstruck by the childishness and the stupidity of it all. And especially saddened by the fact that all religions just end up being copies of Christianity where you get to pray to big Daddy.

Explain the big Daddy concept to Thais long enough and they will all convert to Christianity. Hey, it's a new game like a new lottery ticket. Maybe this God will give me that motorcycle I want.
Mike
April 7, 2008, 10:59

It's easy to convert the starving, just do not let it go to your head that they are truly converted to anything more than filling their bellies and the bellies of their wives and children. The only true converts in Asia to the western Gods are the ones gaining material wealth, help, food, property, power, etc. from the converting missionaries. Anything after that is merely the habit of the latter generations believing in the same old fairy tales their parents and their priests brainwashed them into believing. It's a scam, a power play, a drain on society and its time and energy, a waste of a good Sunday, and a way to control the lesser intelligent superstitious masses. The elite of the world pretend to be god-fearing people, while they betray the entirety of humanity raping and pillaging and destroying and enslaving the entire race and its planet for their gain. They are the antithesis of what religion they espouse. 'They' are 'them' of the 'us and them', they are the ones who, if given the chance, would kill and destroy us all because we do not believe in their fairy tales or bow to their Ginger Snaps Cookie Monster from Venus god. Don't fool yourselves. If left to hold power and sway over us all each and every major (and minor) organized religion would eventually forcefully convert the non-believers, or imprison and even kill us all. Organized BIG religion is the bane of civilized modern humanity. Private beliefs are another matter, and a guaranteed human right. It is once these 'private' religious beliefs are organized and made to exert their beliefs and power over we non-believers through our civil governments that the problems truly come about. The total seperation of church and state is a true necessity if we as a world society are ever to reach our true potential. JMHO.
Dana
April 7, 2008, 11:45

The only exception to Mike's remarks is Danaism. But then we all knew that.
Marc Holt
April 7, 2008, 12:00

Both Dana and Mike make very valid points. Bush is to blame for the current mess the US is in. Before him there was very little, if any, crossover of religion into politics. These days? It's a big bludgeon to bash the masses into submission. It won't work for us thinking atheists, which is why we need to be ever vigilant.

LP's comment just shows that he hasn't given this much thought. Thailand is an atheist country if you define an atheist as lacking a belief in god. Maybe he should ask his wife if she believes in a god...unless she comes from Baan Pae. There are no gods in Thailand, but there are plenty of spirits, ghosts, and what have you...just another way to keep the peasants in line. What amazes me is the number of 'educated' Thais who still pay homage to these effigies and ideas. But that's what you get, I guess, when an entire population reads comic books instead of educational literature. Ya gotta wonder!

I don't agree with Dana that we should KILL all the xtians here, but we should lead them on the path to mongerism and hedonism. Break them down and lead them to humanity. That's the way to handle them!
Dana
April 7, 2008, 13:18

"I don't agree with Dana that we should KILL all the xtians here, but we should lead them on the path to mongerism and hedonism. Break them down and lead them to humanity. That's the way to handle them!"

Just for the record, I did not publically endorse killing anyone; on the other hand, is there anybody who does not think the herd needs to be thinned? And I think Mr. Holt's (if that is his real name) notion of leading them on the path of mongerism and hedonism has merit.

When Moses was up on the mountaintop talking to the burning bush there was one hell of a party going on down around the golden calf. And those drugged up liquored up women were hot. Dark skins. wide feet, high cheekbones, black hair, flat tight stomachs . . . sweet Jesus on a cracker it makes you wonder if Essan was founded by one of the lost tribes of Israel.
Union Hill
April 7, 2008, 13:48

I just asked my devoutly Buddhist wife if she believes in God. "Seventy per cent", she said. "No, no" I said, the answer is 'yes' or 'no'. "Sevent per cent is more than fifty per cent so, yes I believe" she said.

Me, I'm more interetsed in these relgions of mongerism and hedonism. Lead me into temptation......Oh, wait, I'm already here!
lookpapa
April 7, 2008, 14:35

One arrives in Thailand and is immediately confronted by thousands of Temples and Monks. Marc wants me to think that this is an atheist country? Then you see all the Xmas decorations and thousands of Thais going to Midnight Mass in numerous Christian Churches and I should believe that this is an atheist nation?
Come to think of it how many countries/nations are there where atheism is the mainstream belief?
Yes Marc I asked my wife your question and she replied: Oh my God,what a silly question! So was your statement about : "Before Bush there was very little , if any , crossover of religion into politics. As if religion was not politics!
Marc Holt
April 8, 2008, 06:12

LP, you have just confirmed what I said earlier...you look at the surface and judge by that. The fact is, the temples and monks have nothing to do with god. They are there so that Thais can 'pray' to the buddha for material things. Since when was Buddha a god?

Sure, there are a few churches and even some Thai xtians...but that does not change the fact that this is an atheist country. I can name a few other countries that are atheist. China, Japan, Taiwan, HK. I'm sure others can name quite a few more countries.

Your wife's flippant answer confirms my statement really, doesn't it? And your flippant answer about Bush confirms my statement really, doesn't it?

When I wrote this article I knew it would bring out the old arguments. But it had to be said. It's too easy to look at the surface trappings and make shallow judgments.
a bloody yank
April 8, 2008, 08:09

I think these are all good points. I agree with Dana that they pray to Buddha. However, My wife claims that they have a name for god; Faaa is the best I can pronounce it.
She claims to have never "prayed" to Buddha. But that she looks to Buddha for direction,advice etc.
My guess, is that Buddism may be a Deist religion. ( the belief in a creator that has no bearing or control of our everyday life)
a bloody yank
April 8, 2008, 08:17

I would like to also comment on the christian success stories. Mormons are a good example; They claim 30 million followers. i do not believe that most of their converts remain mormons after the boys in white shirts leave.
Why would people all over the world believe in a religion where the prophet was born in New York, Utah is the holy land and the lord will return someday to Missouri? The christians here in america keep sending money to Thailand because they believe all these poor bar girls are in prostitution against their will. I think many of their converts do not really believe in Jesus being a god.
Dana
April 8, 2008, 10:01

"Why would people all over the world believe in a religion where the prophet was born in New York, Utah is the holy land and the lord will return someday to Missouri?"

Mormonism is so silly it makes you actually feel sorry for the stupid people who take part. And reading it's ripoff holy book that just imitates the Bible and makes up the silliest names is another exercise in pity. We used to have door to door Mormons in my neighborhood. We still have them only now they are going through the trash looking for bottles and cans. Critics say that Mormonism is not a religion, it is a cult. I think that does a disservice to cults. Who would line up on a hot day and drink poison kool aid knowing it was poison kool aid for Mormonism? No one. It does not even deserve the status of cult. Just stupid people. It is all about group behavior. People like to take a **** in groups. It is hard to find the person that can take a dump alone.
Mike
April 8, 2008, 10:26

Dana, "Mormonism is so silly it makes you actually feel sorry for the stupid people who take part." Check out the 7th Day Adventists as well. Whacky lot these silly buggers are, and many seem to gravitate to the medical profession for some reason (money?). Their 'prophet' was a total loon, predicted the end of the world many times, each time it did not come about there was some sort of mathematical error and the date forwarded in time to a new 'end of times'. Eventually on her death these silly pronouncements were discontinued, and they speak of them not at all now. Another end of days cult really, nothing more. Yet the US Governemnt gives these whack-job religious loons tax exemptions and such to this day. For some reason as long as the 'religion' is somehow even loosely based on Christianity, it somehow passes the test for a 'true' religion. Tax them all I say, to the max. Use the RICO laws to prosecute them. :-) It's all a scam and conspiracy to make money from gullible people afraid of death and needing some support and crutch to live through the fear. (Notice how much discussion any piece on religion will bring about. It touches a cord for many. :-))
Mike
April 8, 2008, 10:58

Marc might like reading this book:

http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780307396266&ref=banner&name=delusionBELIEFNET

As for Thailand and atheism, Thailand now has one god... the great almighty baht. Those claiming they are Buddhist are mostly as Buddhist as myself, which means not at all. I see the country as a mish-mash of beliefs and distorted quasi mixtures of ancient animism, Hinduism, Buddism, and 'good luck' cultism. They will embrace anything that they feel will bring them good luck in life. But then, the huge network of religious TV evangelistic Xtians are selling the same thing for the same reasons aren't they? "Send us a hundred dollars now and you will be blessed 1,000-fold in return!"

What a scam, and what is truly amazing is the number of people who fall for it and give, give, give. Dana has it right. Start a church of your own and make it rich in the name of God and even become a god yourself. Fools and their money are easily parted. :-)
Marc Holt
April 8, 2008, 11:13

And let's not forget the Church of Scientology! They are the ultimate loons...but worse, they are very, very, dangerous. Click on the link on my name in this comment and review the last couple of months posts. I have got some interesting things there.
Dana
April 8, 2008, 12:24

There is salvation for humans and salvation is nigh in the form of the Church of Dana (COD), and the Dana Fan Club (DFC), and Dana: The Movie, and the Dana website ALL DANA ALL THE TIME, public Dana statuary; and of course Danaism which was covered in detail on AnotherWebsite.com.

DANAISM. Wait for me on the shore and we will wade back in Time to gases and pressures that will make a mockery of carbon based life forms. Without blood or hope you will finally be free.
Bruce
April 9, 2008, 00:12

Yawn...
RSS 2.0: Syndicate this article

Add Comment
* Name


Site



*Image Validation (?)


*Comments / Feedback





Print Article Print Article
Send to a friend Send to a friend
Save as PDF Save as PDF
Rate this Article :

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10
Poor Excellent