Now I Care

chuckwoww
July 10, 2007, 12:16

Good one Dana. I hope you won't mind me saying that. I could even elaborate a little if you like.

Dana
July 10, 2007, 17:37

Thank-you Mr. Woww:

This is straight personal story non-fiction but I also wrote it as a paen to men. Go to any window in the world. Now look through the window. Everything you see was built by men. We count too. We are human beings also. These should not be special ideas that need to be publicized. But they are ideas that need to be publicized. Since the late 60's in America men have been told that they are not equal to women in terms of sensitivity to social issues. I was 18 in 1967 so my entire adult life in the only life I am going to get to live I have been bombarded (going on 40 years now) with the politically correct and popular idea that I am inferior to women. I instinctively didn't accept this when I was 18 and first on campus witnessing female anger and frustration being sold as philosophy, and I do not believe it now after 40 years of being force fed this crap. Men are equal to women and we do not deserve abuse from women based on our genitalia. But we will have to fight for our own personal dignities one by one; no one is going to fight for us.

chuckwoww
July 10, 2007, 20:11

Funny how we all see things differently. I'll read it again. First time through I saw it as more of a comment on the aging process.

Jimmie Blonde
July 10, 2007, 21:43

Nah your just old :)

JB

Bill
July 11, 2007, 00:54

A sad story Dana. My bet is one or two guys could relate to this story and not just in Thailand.

Still, Sadder and wiser eh Dana?... Maybe, just maybe, next time she’ll be the one. Chances are though she won't be waiting for you on Walking Street :-)

Marc Holt
July 11, 2007, 05:58

You bet, Dana. I am right with you on this one. Like you, I never accepted the crap. I did understand that I needed to explore my sensitive side, so I turned my dick over and looked at the more sensitive side. It didn't teach me anything new. It was still my dick. It sure wasn't HERS.

Relationships must be two way. The Feminazis have tried to dominate. Not that I'm against a little domination now and again, but only in bed!

This fight between the sexes can't be won by either side. It's time for the women to understand this. Maybe then the divorce rate would come down.

Don't get me started, Marc.....

BW
July 11, 2007, 07:42

As world renowned psychiatrist Eric Berne once wrote: the only way to win at games is not to play.

Korski
July 11, 2007, 07:54

So little happens in this story and it's so thin, it's hard to get excited about anything in it, whether true or not. Dana's lament about the sorry state of men vis-a-vis women is just his overheated mind in overdrive, as it is so frequently in just about all that he writes. How pathetic to read about something like this from a long-time Thailand monger who enjoys Thai women all the time who are half his age, and at prices that are so cheap they are simply laughable.

mike
July 11, 2007, 20:52

I'd like to think we can/should comment on the stories and not on the authors and any particular personal issues one might have with them. Stick to the story itself please. If you have issues with the author please do take this elsewhere, as here is not the place for this. We aren't MangoSauce, or even Schoochers, where personal attacks are allowed, and even encouraged at times it seems, in the commentary. Please consider your comments before posting them here. If they are not constructive criticism, or fair and warranted, then just do not post them, as we will not let them through to show here in the future. It's not what our site is about, really. We're not a message board and do not intend to become like one. We've had little problems here over the past year with the comments area. What little problems we did have never saw the light of day actually, as they were easily deleted. Let's keep it civil and polite. We do appreciate that we have a great bunch writing and reading here. Thanks.

Korski
July 12, 2007, 03:31

Mike,

I'm afraid, in case you don't know it, you can't separate in a story like this thee author from this story and all the others that he writes, fiction and nonfiction. He consistently exaggerates, it's the nature of how he writes. And yes I am talking about his writing. If you think you can separate the writer from the writing you are living in a dreamland, and not one that in fact exists. It is no secret from so much that Dana writes tht he also enjoys--and his age is no secret--the Thai P4P women on a regular basis and going back many years. So what's the problem? I think, Mike, you need to refocus your lenses.

The Grinch
July 12, 2007, 15:27

I think the key distinction here is that Noi only made a joke. In my opinion, the author's reaction is extreme and unwarranted. He admits that Noi speaks almost no English; maybe she was tring out one of the only phrases she knows and it backfires. I am in a relationship with a 28 year old Vietnamese woman. She speaks no English and my Vietnamese is quite limited. We struggle with communication; and tolerance is the only way to maintain our mutual respect.

Marc Holt
July 13, 2007, 18:38

Love him or hate him, no one can ignore Dana.

chuckwoww
July 13, 2007, 19:26

"I think the key distinction here is that Noi only made a joke."

That's the way I read it too. One of those cultural misunderstandings. She made a silly little joke and touched a raw nerve.

mike
July 13, 2007, 23:33

Yes, a joke. To me this little story actually says a lot of things in its brevity, or thin-ness as Korski calls it. It touches on a number of issues and 'insecurities' I think many men (especially older men) coming to Thailand have, and not just those coming to Thailand but many men the world over at some point in their lives, in their relationships with women, have. Whether with Pattaya hookers or not most men are looking for some link, some connection with a woman, any woman, all women. I think sex for many men is secondary at times. It's those connections, that male/female linkage most are truly looking for, for reaffirmation as to their desirability, their valued masculinity, their virility. It's not just sex, but the whole package. Is the author being overly sensitive to the joke? Possibly. But maybe he has a reason to be. Maybe he has gone out of his way to make this woman, who may be no beauty queen or spring chicken at age 27 herself, feel young and pretty and wanted/desired/sexy in his previous and current attentions. And here she, at a moment when he is possibly feeling his age, cuts him to the quick with a joke that brings his years down around his head and makes him think too much. The point I read in this is that she hurt him (unintentionally likely), with her little bit of English she cut him down and with his nearly nonexistent Thai he has no way to show her that he feels hurt by her joke, betrayed that she ruined the effect. To me the story speaks of frustration.

Does he exaggerate her when he calls her an Isaan stunner? Maybe. She has stretch marks, has a kid, no longer is 'stunner' material really. But, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The thing is the Thai women have a way of making an older man feel young again. It's all part of their ability to weave that fantasy many men desire so much that they will fly thousands of miles annually to once again partake in the fantasy. They are expert in this, the 'girlfriend experience' some call it. Or, as the Galt guy calls it, 'The Tom Cruise Effect'. And here Dana describes this to good effect, and he also describes the effect of her words, her joke, on him perfectly in three short sentences. She bursts the bubble of the fantasy. It's over. He's just another older farang man with a young Thai woman. He's no longer Tom Cruise. The spell is broken. It's that that I feel that makes him angry/disappointed with her, wanting to no longer make the effort to sustain and maintain the fantasy she has ruined for him.

For me the piece says a lot really in its brevity. But that's just my own take and opinion.

chuckwoww
July 14, 2007, 06:22

Korski is right in a way. It's hard to judge a piece of writing like that without bringing Dana's er...somewhat volatile ....character into it. But as writing it works well. He certainly managed to capture a transitional moment. We all handle these things differently. Just speaking for myself I've often used the most trivial excuse to terminate a relationship.

henrik2000
July 14, 2007, 11:07

"Love him or hate him, no one can ignore Dana."

I can, easily.

mike
July 14, 2007, 14:03

korski,
"I'm afraid, in case you don't know it, you can't separate in a story like this thee author from this story and all the others that he writes, fiction and nonfiction."

Well, I think this is a personal thing. I can and do read everything here and read books all the time from many various authors. I don't judge a book or story I read by the author, his personality, his lifestyle, or whether I like him personally or not. To me it has little or nothing to do with the writing or the story. Does one read Hemingway because they like the man, or because they like his writing? (Not that I am comparing Dana to Hemingway, but you get the point I assume.) Do people read King because they like the man or because they like his stories? Does one not read an author because they do not like some of his writing so they decide not to read anything by him? I've read authors whose one or more books I didn't like, but find a particular story interesting enough to read because it seems it may be something I may like. Whether I do or not has nothing to do with the author himself, or even his or her previous work, but has more to do with their writing and the subject matter and their ability to tell the story. I've read many authors whose earlier works I did not like, but whose later work I found I could enjoy. Most writers evolve over time, at least the better ones do I have found and seen. And, while I may not agree with an author on his politics, his religious views, his lifestyle, his beliefs and personal views, I find that many/most times this has nothing to do with the story or the writing, or my own ability to enjoy their writing. To me they are seperate from the stories themselves. (Truman Capote comes to mind here for me.)

"He consistently exaggerates, it's the nature of how he writes."

I think many writers exaggerate, artistic license maybe? Is there anything to indicate whether Dana is claiming his stories are 100% true and entirely anecdotal? I find they/many are probably a blend of truth, fiction, and even fantasy. But then I don't care, it's the story I am interested in, not whether the author is being 100% truthful in telling it, if indeed he is being untruthful.

"And yes I am talking about his writing. If you think you can separate the writer from the writing you are living in a dreamland, and not one that in fact exists."

I do not agree. See above.

"It is no secret from so much that Dana writes tht he also enjoys--and his age is no secret--the Thai P4P women on a regular basis and going back many years."

And? I fail to see your point here. The story is about one relationship. And nowhere does it even say or imply she is a working bargirl. What I see here is you are making assumptions and, since you cannot disconnect the author from the writing or his previous writings, seeing it in a different light/way from what was actually written.

"So what's the problem? I think, Mike, you need to refocus your lenses."

The problem I feel is a personality conflict between two people which has nothing to do with the story/ies. My lenses are clean and focus very well I feel. They are focused on the stories, and not the personalities involved. For me that is what the site is all about, the stories; not the authors, the petty squabbles, the egos and eccentricities, nor their lifestyles. Many good authors/writers are total bastards and eogtistical *******s in real life. For me that is all for the tabloids and has little to do with the stories and the authors writings themselves.

One big problem I have seen in this recent computer age is that authors tend to interact with others, their readers and fellow writers, much easier now in this medium. For some that might not be the wisest course to follow. They'd be better off letting their writing speak for them, rather than using the internet and its instantaneous forum for a podium to espouse their personal beliefs and ideas. But that is just my opinion from my own recent experiences over the past few years. I feel it is better for the author to maybe remain a bit of a mystery, a blank slate so to speak which is harder for a potential reader to form prejudices and negative opinions about the/an author and his personal beliefs.

Let me put it this way. I think you yourself are a fine and fabulous writer, one of the best I've seen anywhere on the net. Your stories are rich, well written, professional, interesting and topically unique. I love the style they are written in and the voice you are able to use and inject into your work. Now we meet in person. If we hit it off famously, why then that is great. But say we meet and find we do not like each other. Should this then influence my previous thoughts on your writing? Of course not, that would be foolish and childish. Why? Because it does not change the/your writing itself. It would still be all I said previously, the writing, and the stories.

Hey, maybe as you say I am living in a dreamland, one of my own making. It works for me. :-)

mike
July 14, 2007, 14:22

Henrik,

"I can, easily."

Hahahahaha! Is that what you call your comment above ... easily ignoring? I'd say it is proof otherwise. Not so easy. :-)

Bill
July 14, 2007, 23:39

Dana. I don’t know the guy, never met him and don’t particularly have any desire to meet him. (The feeling is mutual I’m sure). My earlier comment regarding his association with Walking St (Pattaya’s centre of madness) may have sounded flippant but wasn’t intended that way I hope he didn’t mind, I’m sure he’s heard a lot worse than that.

For what it’s worth I have learn a lot through this particular web site with regards to reading, writing and forming my own opinions towards certain individual writers. Of all the writers it appears Dana is the most controversial. But also it has to be said one of the most influential. Having said that I do try to read everything with an open mind. Agreed Mike, one should not let bias personal opinions of the author get in the way when judging a particular piece of prose, or poetry for that matter. However In the past I openly admit to speed reading the majority of Mr Dana’s work, sorry Dana but like I said, in the past. It’s took me a while, maybe just getting to know a little more about the character of the man through some of the comments he has posted on many a story (personal attacks or otherwise) he has managed to reel me in. He may well have his little idiosyncrasies but like Marc says, he must be doing something right you certainly can’t ignore him.

Dana’s literary diversity which he has shown here on TS time and time again is a credit to him. I still may struggle with certain aspects of his work but for me anyway some of his stories of late have been amongst the best I’ve ever read, this one included. In my earlier comment I stated this story is very sad. And it is. It moved me, thanks for sharing it with us Dana.