Farang Cronicles; My resignation as a Farang boyfriend

GoingPostal
September 4, 2011, 07:16

Do you mind my asking if English is your second language?

mike
September 4, 2011, 11:39

GP,

As it obviously is discernible to a native English speaker that English is not Heraclio's first language... why do you ask? Are there any other languages besides English you could write in fluently? Have you any stories or writings to share with us here for our enjoyment, and for us to possibly critique? If so, please do share them with us. It would be nice to see some stories about Thailand from a feminine POV.

Personally I am more interested in the telling of the stories, the stories themselves, rather than the technical aspects of the writing itself. I can forgive the grammatical errors most times if the story is interesting, amusing, etc. How else can amateur writers share their stories without a place like TS.com? A place where we hope the readers will enjoy some stories on a subject of interest to them, and a place where we hope the readers will critique and comment in a civil and pleasant manner the stories shown for their reading pleasure. We want to encourage people to share their stories and experiences of Thailand and SEA, hone whatever skills they may have or are building through their writing, and have some fun doing so among people who like to write the same or enjoy reading the same. And, we have writers of differing skill levels posting their scribblings here. The readers can pick and chose their favorites to enjoy, or to not bother with. Easy really. We aren't the Saturday Evening Post, or the New Yorker (he said with a smirk).

Lighten up people.

Mike

GoingPostal
September 4, 2011, 12:53

"As it obviously is discernible to a native English speaker that English is not Heraclio's first language... why do you ask?"

Obviously? I wouldn't say that or I wouldn't have asked. And I do think it's important to know the answer to the question to provide meaningful feedback.

Why? Because if the person was not a native English speaker then I'd include comment on the more obvious related errors in a specific constructive manner which would benefit him the most. If he was then I might not choose to comment at all because if someone hasn't learned their native language by a certain point in their life they may never. I asked because for the first time in several weeks I actually liked a story and I felt it deserved comment. Actually, both of them do.

I think there is room in a critique for both the technical aspects, and the story telling aspects. Even though Mr. Heraclio is not a native English speaker, or more accurately specifically because he is not, he would benefit from targeted constructive feedback on the technical aspects. So as not to patronize Mr. Heraclio, or worse insult a very poorly skilled native speaker, I asked because it serves HIM better if I (we) know the answer.

If you'd rather I did not comment on the technical aspects, after all we have several here more qualified than myself, then I will not. It is not my intention to argue.

As you can tell, on this board I struggle to portray my true personality and accurate attitude. I tend to rub the occasional person the wrong way. For this I apologize because you had the manners to ask politely. If you think I was anything less than polite in asking please instruct me on how I could have improved my question. I will then resubmit my question in English and my own native language and one other if you think it would be helpful.

Btw, I love your site and respect your moderation. You walk the wire better than most.

Airmail
September 4, 2011, 15:01

"Personally I am more interested in the telling of the stories, the stories themselves, rather than the technical aspects of the writing itself."

Spot on Mike. Couldn't agree more!

mike
September 4, 2011, 18:19

GP,

Well thank you. I do try, as I think the site has many good writers posting, is appreciated by the readers who come here to find a good story about Thailand and the surrounding area, and has a lot of potential if moderated to weed out the blue meanies and miserable destructive sorts who seem to want only to argue and bring people down from behind the anonymity of their PC screens. This site is my baby which I have put a lot of time into creating and running. I just wish I had more time to do so these days.

I'd love to see some polite and constructive critique for those who want/desire this from others who may have the education, experience and training to help fledgling aspiring writers here. As long as it doesn't disrupt the readers on the site, and is wanted by a writer here, I see no problems doing so. Ask first would be my suggestion. I'm sure some here would love the help and instructional 'mentoring' from those who can give such in a polite, friendly and non-condescending way.

I'm off to the states in a couple of days. I have a couple of Steve's stories to get up in the queue, and packing and many other things to do to get ready (I always forget some damned thing or another). I will try to get online as much as I can during my trip away. I'll be away from Thailand until my return on the 6th of October. A month with my stateside children and four grandkids, family and friends that I look forward to every year. If problems arise please do send your submissions, queries and whatnot to my partner: mo@thailandstories.com

Mike

GoingPostal
September 4, 2011, 18:53

"Ask first would be my suggestion."

Yes, I can see how this would be most helpful to all concerned. I have never submitted a story to this site so I do not know the procedure as you go through the on-line process, all this time I always thought that by posting and allowing comments they were in fact asking for constructive feedback on all aspects of writing. I thought they would simply disable comments if no feedback is desired.

"who may have the education, experience and training"

Understandable, though this seems like a high bar to meet. For those here who have these qualifications would you mind sharing your specific level of expertise so I can see where I fit in? For instance, I can say upfront I have no formal training in "teaching English" or "teaching creative writing."

"from those who can give such in a polite, friendly and non-condescending way. "

An admirable goal. Yet, it has been my experience writers have quite lofty egos which might (and often does) 'color' how they perceive feedback. I always assumed serious writers found all feedback valuable so I tend to be straightforward, perhaps even blunt. In the future I will endeavor to temper my criticisms to ensure I come off as friendly and polite.

Enjoy your travels. Family brings such joy.

heraclio
September 4, 2011, 19:02

Hi Goingpostal,

No, English is not my native language but I speak it since my early teens...I can tell you however that some of the errors you refer to in my story are part of the way I write...I care less about linguistic correctness but like the freak around with words and grammar...

I keep a blog about my chaotic life in pretty much the same english, fully aware of errors and linguistic mistakes, but done on purpose...

Nice to hear you liked my story, thx

Hans aka Heraclio

mike
September 4, 2011, 21:23

"I have never submitted a story to this site so I do not know the procedure as you go through the on-line process,"

It's easy, and if you can't seem to figure out the process we do help the writers if they send in their stories and post them for them (Dana comes to mind, and Steve). Use Word, as that seems the most compatible. If you need help just let us know.

"all this time I always thought that by posting and allowing comments they were in fact asking for constructive feedback on all aspects of writing."

They mostly are. Polite and friendly feedback and comments are desired. Personal attacks and outright nastiness and what I have seen some send in and not posted, is not. You wouldn't believe the silliness and nastiness that sometimes some try to place on here.

"I thought they would simply disable comments if no feedback is desired."

You can. Every time a story is placed up an author can decide to accept comments on the story or not. Up to them.

"Understandable, though this seems like a high bar to meet."

Well, not many are able really to criticize without offending I feel. Some have a knack for it and their critiques are taken as they are meant, simple advice and comments and corrections for the author to look over and agree or disagree with and take into consideration. Some just piss people off and irritate with how they do this. Bluntness can be seen as condescending and holier than thou to many, especially with the written word.

"For instance, I can say upfront I have no formal training in "teaching English" or "teaching creative writing.""

Many authors/writers like to see what a person has to offer through their own writing before accepting their criticisms. I know, you don't have to be a writer to critique someone's writings, but it helps to show you actually know how to write a story yourself before slagging off someone else. :-) But, that is for the more technical aspects of writing. Anyone can say and know if they like a story or not, and say why either way, politely. Strange at times I feel how a story can affect people/readers emotionally to such high degrees.

"An admirable goal."

And one I try to maintain here.

"Yet, it has been my experience writers have quite lofty egos which might (and often does) 'color' how they perceive feedback."

LOL! Well, that is true I have seen, but you need a rather large ego to write something and place it in the public domain for all to see to begin with. To believe you have something to say that many will want to hear/read takes more than the usual amount of ego I'd say. A bit of a Catch 22.

"I always assumed serious writers found all feedback valuable so I tend to be straightforward, perhaps even blunt."

I believe serious writers do want feedback, both critical and praise. But not everyone here is a professional writer, nor even aspiring to be one. Many here write for the fun of it. It's something they enjoy, and they share here their experiences and many are talented, naturally so, not trained. We want to encourage them, not discourage them.

"In the future I will endeavor to temper my criticisms to ensure I come off as friendly and polite."

Thank you.

"Enjoy your travels."

Thank you, I will try to. Even though I will now have to run the gauntlet of the Homeland Security sexual molesters and airline hassles, customs baloney, and such (and the expense), I intend to enjoy myself for the next few weeks. And I'll get to once again bring a couple bottles of my favorite John Powers Irish whiskey back with me on my return, an added incentive to endure the trial of modern day air travel. A lobster roll is first on the list of things to eat on my arrival.
I do miss some things from my native land while living here. I am lucky I have the ability and finances to travel home once a year. By week four though I am ready to return to my home, wife/family and business in Surin. I do love Thailand and the Thai people. If I didn't I would not be here. I could just as easily live in Florida, and may one day spend half the year there, and half here. We'll see.

Cheers.

Mike


P.S.

"Family brings such joy."

Most of the time, luckily enough for me. :-)

sisterray
September 4, 2011, 21:24

Heraclio,
I like this story and hope you submit more to TS. Where can we find your blog?

heraclio
September 4, 2011, 22:35

Hi Sisterray,

Thanks for liking my story though I write for my own enjoyment, it still is fun to get positive feedback.

You can find my blog on www.heraclio-heraclio.blogspot.com....my crazy stories and chaotic artwork.

Thx again, Hans aka He
raclio

GoingPostal
September 5, 2011, 08:02

"No, English is not my native language but I speak it since my early teens...I can tell you however that some of the errors you refer to in my story are part of the way I write...I care less about linguistic correctness but like the freak around with words and grammar..."

Interesting. Thank you for your response. Are these errors just the way you naturally write English, or are you trying to induce errors to provide a certain feel?

I think, with correct grammar and spelling you present an easier to read piece for the most people. If you are trying to induce a certain grammar style, always risky imo, you run the risk of a very small audience actually enjoying the reading of your work. If it is the way you naturally speak, and your stories are very compelling, then you might develop a type of following. I'm sure we can all think of successful examples of all three types.

I will say this, I think many people underestimate how much more enjoyable reading can be, and how much more clear with certain technical subjects, when standard and correct grammar and spelling is used.

I'm not trying to sway you in any direction, but rather to ensure you've fully considered the pros and cons of each.

"Nice to hear you liked my story, thx"

You are welcome, thank you for posting something different. Your work has a certain 'rawness' to it which I find appealing.

GoingPostal
September 5, 2011, 08:07

"Bluntness can be seen as condescending and holier than thou to many, especially with the written word."

Yes, I can see this now. From my own background, we are worried less about presentation than about content. Maybe because we think "who would waste everyone's time to be less than sincere?" Perhaps this difference is cultural.

"but it helps to show you actually know how to write a story yourself before slagging off someone else. :-)"

I think I detect a challenge. Okay! I will try to earn my spurs. However, I am not sure how long it will take. Sooner I hope.

mike
September 5, 2011, 10:56

GP,

Just a short story about time you have spent in Thailand: people, places, things, adventures, moods, scents, moving times and experiences, spiritual moments, ghost stories (I have some posted here), whatever you desire to show us. It need not be the Great Expat Novel.

And yes, it is a challenge. :-)

P.S.
I'll be writing some short stories for the site while I am away. Sitting on the deck overlooking the backyard forest and lake in the cool, crisp, clean September morning air of northern Massachusetts is conducive to pondering and reflecting on all things Thai I find. Plus I'll have little distractions in the early mornings, and time to do so over a fresh brewed cup of java. It's been a while since I have written any stories, and my head is full of them clamoring to get out onto the laptop screen.

heraclio
September 5, 2011, 23:49

Are these errors just the way you naturally write English? No, neither is it the way I normally speak English, rather a certain autor's way, indeed meant to induce a certain feel...

With correct grammar and spoelling you present a easier piece for most people. As I mentioned before though I am happy and not withoput a certain feeling of pride, I prefer to write in my own way instead of adjusting to that what the majority of readers expect of me...would rather have followers that like my style for what it is then the other way around.

A certain "rawness", Thailand and my life here in Amsterdam I consider quite raw in nature or maybe it just my personal way of looking at things..

Once again, THX for your interesting response to my work....I write most of my stories late at night after freaking around with my paint, bewing alone in the house with my own thoughts relaxing to the max brought about my the sketching or painting, soft music in the back ground, a glas of Red Wine or a cold beer.

Question to you: I was wondering about your gender, trying to figure out if your gender has anything to do with some of your remarks and/or questions...not trying to be female unfriendly here, I was just wondering?

Hans aka Heraclio.

GoingPostal
September 7, 2011, 12:10

"Question to you: I was wondering about your gender, trying to figure out if your gender has anything to do with some of your remarks and/or questions...not trying to be female unfriendly here, I was just wondering?"

First, I want to thank you for your responses. I look forward to your next story.

About gender. One of the areas where Thailand stands above much of the world, is in their willingness to be gender friendly. Whether you are male, female, transgender, gay, lesbian, you can find a home in Thailand. We will never meet, so any way you think of me which works best for you is okay with me. I hope this answer is respected by you and the others. I want to feel comfortable here.

sisterray
September 8, 2011, 19:53

Like the artwork, Heraclio. Any plans on a show in Bangkok?

heraclio
September 8, 2011, 23:40

Hi GoingPostal,

Fair enough, your gender response about the Thai vision on this aspect is one of the reasons I fell in love with that Asian realm.

hans from Amsterdam.

heraclio
September 8, 2011, 23:44

Hi Sisterray,

Thanks for your compliment on my artwork...but no, I don't plan a show in BKK though I think I should...you might like to check out the exposition a friend of mine had in S21, the Kmer Rouge torture musem in Phnom Phen las year...you can google his name, Peter Klashorst...if you like my chaotic artwork, you will definitely like his.

Kind regards from Hans, Amsterdam.

Dana
September 9, 2011, 02:18

Am I the only one who thinks enough time has gone by to get Cronicles spelled correctly?

heraclio
September 9, 2011, 14:59

Chronicles...thx for poiting this out to me, Dana

Hans aka Heraclio