Missionary Fever

By : sawadee2000
Views : 264

I consider myself a reasonably civilized human being. I do my best to get along with my fellow travelers on the planet. I wait patiently in line at Big C., even when there are a dozen people ahead of me with shopping carts piled to the sky. I limit my road rage to a few well deserved curses even when the fool in front behind me makes yet another useless attempt to cut me off. I'm nobody's doormat, but I try to keep it all in perspective.
 
When it comes to missionaries though, all bets are off! A few times a week I see a couple of them pedaling their way around Lampang. For me it's like waving a red flag I front of a bull. It would be so easy just to nudge my truck a little to the left and take them right out! But no, I merely project some negative energy at their bland smiling faces and continue on my way. So why do I have such contempt towards these guys? It's not as if they've ever done anything to me personally. Everybody has someone who just "pushes their buttons". For some it's used car salesmen. For others it's politicians. For me it's missionaries.
 
I'm actually surprised that the Kingdom of Thailand allows people in to try to convert its people. These guys are actually telling the Thai people that their Buddhist beliefs are evil! Buddhism is not officially a state religion, but it's pretty damned close to one. The King and royal family regularly participate in Public Buddhist ceremonies. Since Thais love their King to a degree that we will never truly understand, it's hard to believe that the Thai people would tolerate anyone calling the beliefs of the King evil.
 
 If there are Thais who want to be Christians (or any other religion) that's fine with me. It's people who actively try to convert others to their beliefs who raise my ire. Haven't missionaries created enough problems throughout history?
 
To be honest, I would think that "selling" Christianity to the Thais wouldn't be all that easy anyway. Let's face it, do you know any Thais who are all that susceptible to the concepts of guilt or sin? That of course is the foundation of Christianity. "You're all born sinners! Get with the program or you will burn for all eternity!" Whatever other faults the Thais may have, it's hard to see them buying that kind of "snake oil". The folks I saw partying during Songkran didn't seem like they thought they were sinning! Even though drinking alcohol is not allowed under Buddhist teachings, I didn't see a phalanx of angry monks hectoring anyone. My wife and I went to tamboon at a local Wat this week. While there weren't any vendors on the temple grounds selling beer, there were some selling lottery tickets! You've got to love this place!
 
Buddhism is of course not a religion. It is a philosophy. It is a way of approaching life. There's no yammering about "God's will" or preaching that if you don't follow a specific dogma, you are headed for "the Eternal Pit". There have been some extraordinarily bloody wars in Asia, but none of them were about converting people to Buddhism! No talk of God commanding them to "smite the unbelievers". That of course has been the battle cry for western religions for thousands of years. "All those who don't believe as I do must die!"
 
It's important of course to distinguish between religion and spirituality. The former is a set of specific beliefs that must be adhered to. The later is concerned with trying to come to terms with our personal place in the Cosmos.
 
From the moment man became self aware, he also became aware of his own mortality. The one thing we have always known is that our time here is transitory. We are born knowing that someday we will die, so all of us at some point have to ask the "Big Questions". Why are we here? Why is all of this here? Does anything lie beyond the veil of death? Can you imagine yourself as an early human being looking up at the stars and asking these questions? It's not surprising that the first hunter-gatherers spent a lot of time pondering the meaning of life. It's also not surprising that people first envisioned a great earth mother, from whose womb all life sprang and to whom all life returns one day. These people were intimately connected with the natural world.
 
Thousands of years later as people developed agriculture and learned the domestication of animals, people stopped wandering and established small villages. Much more elaborate systems of belief developed. Now there were "gods". It was they who created the world. It was they who brought forth life and were responsible for the physical phenomenon all around them. When there are gods. They must be appeased, lest misfortune fall. And of course where there are gods, there are priests or shamans to intervene between the gods and man.
 
As villages grew into cities, trade between various groups of people grew also. In addition to goods being bartered, ideas were exchanged as well. People began to realize that there were more than just one set of gods out there. Each group had its own pantheon. Sometimes folks got along. Sometimes those who had visions of power and bigger sticks (and eventually much deadlier weapons) gleefully conquered their neighbors. Obviously their gods must be lot for powerful than those of the folks they vanquished. Time for a few burnt offerings to keep the gods happy!
 
Flash forward to the days of the Old Testament. Wandering around are a lots and lots of goat herders. One day Abraham hears Yahweh whispering that HE is the ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD! As a little gift for groveling down and worshiping HIM, God gives him and his descendants the Land of Canaan. Forget about the fact that there are a whole lot of other people living there peacefully worshipping their gods. You have the green light to smite them down in HIS name.
 
Old Yahweh is a mean old SOB who isn't happy unless people are falling to their knees sings hosannas to him. He does like barbeque though, since the Bible goes on and on about the number of bullocks and other burnt offerings that HE demands. And he does have his own Devine sense of humor. Take a look at what he does to poor old Job. He lets Satan torment the hell out of him,wipe out his family and more, just to win a bet!
 
Jews make a big deal out of the fact that THEY were the ones to first believe in Monotheism. Why am I not impressed? Does it matter if you believe in one big God or thousands of small gods, ruled over by a "king of the gods"? Why is one God a superior idea? Especially when it's old Yaweh, who is just spoiling for an excuse for some serious smiting!
 
Now I was raise in a basically non-observant Jewish family. No Kosher laws were in play here! Pass the ham, bacon, and shrimp! But to keep up appearances I was forced to go to Hebrew school every for my weekly indoctrination. Unfortunately for my teachers, even as a young boy, I actually had a functioning cerebellum. I had the really annoying habit of asking embarrassing questions, such as: If God created Adam and Eve, and they had two sons, Cain and Abel, where did Mrs. Cain come from? Or, according to the Bible the Earth was created about 5,000 years ago, but scientists say the Earth is billions of years old. How can that be? What about life on other planets? There are so many religions, and they all claim to be the only true one, how can Jews prove that that Judaism is the correct one? The answers never came, only the admonition to be quiet and stop asking "foolish questions"! "No sir, no way! I will not be silenced!" Actually I did shut up, but only because it was a waste of time. My little kid's mind however was firmly committed to finding out the "Truth", whatever that turned out to be. That I think was the beginning of my lifelong passion for Science. You may accuse me of western prejudice, but one of the greatest contributions of Western Civilization is the development of the Scientific Method. If you want to understand a phenomenon there are clear steps to follow in order to come to a reasonable conclusion. Based on careful observation you come up with a hypothesis. Next you perform experiments and based on your results you come up with a theory. If done correctly, your results should be able to be replicated by anyone. It's not by any means a perfect system. Our observations may be faulty. Our experimental data might not be accurate, and above all else it is possible to arrive at erroneous conclusions. But it's still the best method we have to attempt to understand the physical universe around us.
 
The folks around during Biblical days were clueless about how the natural world operated. Thunder and lightning? Earthquakes and volcanoes? God is obviously pissed off about something. The Earth was flat. The sun moved around the Earth. Stop asking questions! So why is it then it comes to "Ultimate Realities" people actually believe these guys?
 
God was always whispering in people's ears. Does anyone remember the old Bill Cosby comedy routine about Noah? A voice thunders out of the sky, "Build me an ark!" Noah says, "Right! What's an ark?" Seriously though, today not too many people report pillars of fire, and if a friend of yours told you that he had a voice in his head commanding him to do things, you would ether get him to the nearest psych ward…..or just quietly start backing away!
 
Okay, I've said enough about the Old Testament. What about Christianity? Right off the bat they did something that the Jews failed to do. Make everyone feel that they were hopeless sinners, and they were all bound for everlasting damnation! Judaism really doesn't talk much about Heaven, Hell and an afterlife. That is the central point of Christianity. Either you accept Jesus as your Savior, or else it's into the pit with you! Shit, if you can really convince people of that, you have them by the scrotum. If I believed in immanent damnation I'd do anything to avoid that fate! Guilt, sin, fear! No wonder the Church had such sway over people's lives. The ironic thing is that Jesus (whoever he really was) had few profound things to say. If people would actually live their lives according to the "Golden Rule" the world would be a much better place.
 
What is so amazing is that Christians can't even agree among themselves what the "true" faith is! Just for fun, imagine a kind of "cage fight" among all the different sects of Christianity. The line up would include: a Roman Catholic, a Greek Orthodox, an Episcopalian, a Methodist, a Lutheran, a 7th day Adventist, a born again Baptist, a Quaker, a Unitarian, a Mormon, a Jehovah's Witness and any others you'd care to name. Let them slug it out and see who knows what Jesus was thinking! Nothing is bloodier than devout believers arguing among themselves. History is all too full of heretics being burned at the stake. Do you know that the office of the Holy Inquisition is still alive and well? The Catholic Church doesn't exactly go around advertising the fact. Yes, the folks who made Galileo recant the fact that the Earth moves around the sun are still quietly there and ready to defend the faith! And let us not forget the Jesus killing Jews. Those suckers are always going to pay and pay and pay! So is anyone else who gets in the way of the Lord. That's why we need missionaries. We have to save the souls of all those poor little Hindu and Buddhist children who are going to be damned for all of eternity if they accept Jesus' "love". Boy that's one merciful God for you! If the Bible was really true. If God would really condemn babies to Hell, I'd be signing up to fight for old Lucifer! The God of the Bible, for someone who is all-knowing and all powerful, sure allows some pretty horrendous things to happen to innocent people….even people who devoutly worship Him! But who are we to understand the working of "God's Will"? That phrase is enough to make a rational person vomit!
 
Speaking of missionaries, I want to return to these guys on their bicycles here in Lampang. The happen to be Mormon. I have no special gripe against Mormons. Mormonism is very interesting. Just when you think all those Prophets having visions existed thousands of years ago, along comes Joseph Smith to prove P.T Barnum's old maxim that a "sucker is born every second". Millions of people actually believe in the Book of Mormon. Man oh man. There are some big-time whoppers in that one! I could actually go for the polygamy part, as long as we're not talking forcing children into what is basically molestation. If consenting adults want to form plural marriages, it's up to them. Hey, all of your Biblical patriarchs had more than wife. It would certainly cut down on adultery….maybe. Anyway, Mormons are especially zealous when it comes to Missionary work. They've knocked on my door a few times back in the U.S. I politely but firmly told them to piss off. I can only imagine what they are telling the poor Thais here. Perhaps the fantastic fairy tale appeals to the Thais. I guess I'll never know. It's just none of my business.
 
Okay that's enough about Christianity for the moment. As for Islam, well…….I'm not stupid enough to think that in this day and age you can get away with "dissing" the Prophet. These guys don't fool around. I think you can probably draw your own conclusion about that particular faith! These guys take Jihad seriously. It's just dumb luck that a car bomb hasn't gone off in one of the places many of the folks who read Stickman like to hang out. It will probably happen someday. I shudder to think that eventually some guys who are set on meeting their 20 virgins in Paradise will get their hands on a nuke.
 
Hinduism is kind of interesting. While I hardly believe in their pantheon of gods, the idea of cycles of creation and dissolution may turn out to be true. Certainly modern cosmology seriously considers the idea plausible. Some the Vedic philosophy also seems to have some relationship to Quantum Physics. Reincarnation? If you're going to believe in the idea of an immortal soul, multiple lifetimes to go through a "cosmic" learning process sounds better than "one shot" and it's Heaven or Hell. One way or another, if there is something more to experience, we'll know about it immediately after our deaths. So don't worry, be happy!
 
As for Buddhism, there are many forms of it practiced all throughout Asia. Tibetan Buddhism (Mahayana) has a number of differences from the Theraveda version practiced in Thailand, but all branches try to teach how to live in harmony. In Thailand there is still a lot of pre-Buddhist animism mixed in with the Buddha's teachings. Thais take things like ghosts seriously. My wife once had me take a beer and a slice of pizza out to our spirit house to keep the ghosts "happy". I suppose I would be happy if someone brought me a beer and some pizza! In any case, even if one doesn't believe in Buddhism, visiting a Wat can be a very peaceful experience. At least there's not a statue of a bloody corpse to bring everybody down. And who would you chat with, the Pope of the Dalai Lama? Enlightenment sounds appealing. I've been practicing meditation daily for almost forty years. I can say that it has been beneficial to me personally, but I would never try to inflict it on anyone.
 
Believe it or not, for all my ranting about religion, I do believe that there is a place for spirituality (in the broadest sense) in my life. I don't presume to talk about your lives! Even though I believe in Science, I realize its limitations. We've learned so much about the laws of nature. We know about the early history of the Universe immediately following the Big Bang, and yet Science is unable to answer the fundamental question of WHY any of this exists at all! If all the energy and matter came exploding out of a primordial singularity. We still can't say HOW it all existed before exploded outward into the Universe we know. It just isn't satisfying to say, well it just happened. We desperately crave to know the how and why of it all! (at least I do!) I have my own personal views on "what it's all about", and if we meet up one day we can discuss it over a glass or two. But I won't bore you with my personal view on as Douglas Adams once said, "Life, the Universe and Everything."
 
Whatever gets Thai people through their lives is okay with me. But like it or not this is a Buddhist society. So, to all of you Missionaries out there (and it would be interesting if there were some Missionaries that cruised over to Stick's site) Just go home. Just leave the folks here alone. They're doing just fine. They aren't sinners and they don't need any saving, except of course from folks like you!

 

© Sawadee2000. All rights reserved by the author.


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Comments / Feedback

Dana
September 17, 2008, 21:36

" . . . a place for spirituality . . . "

I consciously as a part of my profile as a person stopped using the word spirituality about ten years ago. Reason?

The word does not mean anything. It is simply a linguistic dumping ground for all of the unrealized vague dreams that people have about how things should be.

Typical Example: "Well, I am not all that sure about God but I do feel there is something out there and that I am connected in some way . . . " -- blah blah blah.

This is how children and crazy people talk. If you forced religious people and 'spiritual' people to just stick to declaritive sentences and facts the world would go silent. What a gift for the rest of us who are heartily sick of listenting to this blathering.

In short: it is a coward's word and an ignorant person's word. It is a random indifferent universe and your life has no value. There is not anything in this that is spiritual even if you think so. Grow up.
KoolKing
September 18, 2008, 00:15

In spite of a fear that the Pope is going to bust my kneecaps, I'll say what I know. I used to have many acquaintances in the Royal Lao Air Force and many of them were Catholics. They were recruited by Catholic missionaries, promised a good education, and would be taught English at a better than average level. When the war drums started to beat these folks were the first to sign-up and many received their military training back in the United States and went on to become the elite of the Royal Lao Armed Services. When I pressed them on converting, most of them would say something like "why take chances" or "if one is good, two is better". They never really really gave up Buddhism. One especially good friend of mine, a former Captain in the Royal Lao AF, was one of the first refugees to get to the USA, along with his extended family. Every Christmas the local Catholic church would drop off several grocery bags of turkey, etc. at Christmas time for them. Over the years, in spite of his never having attended this church and that he had become highly succesful in his employment and business ventures, the grocery bags still arrived every Christmas.
steve rosse
September 18, 2008, 01:42

I read the first few paras, and beside the fact that this is a meandering personal essay which does not offer any support for its thesis beyond "This is what I think..." there are some facts to clear up.

Buddhism IS the official state-endorsed religion of Thailand. That's why people are blowing up schools in Pattani.

Buddhism certainly DOES say "if you don't follow a specific dogma, you are headed for "the Eternal Pit". " The dogma is the Eightfold Path and the Pit is eternal rebirth into this life of suffering. And it's only the endowing of the Godhead with personality that separates "God's will" from the law of Karma.

Buddhism is all about personal responsibility, so the Thais, or any other Buddhists who know what they're doing, allow anybody to do anything within reason, like preach their own faith, since it's their own karma to deal with.

Finally, Buddhism came to Thailand via missionaries from Sri Lanka. If Buddhism is anywhere outside India, it came their via Buddhist missionaries. Why wouldn't they still allow missionaries?

I gotta say, there's a lot of un-Buddhist belief being expressed in this essay, or at least in the first few paragraphs.
sawadee2000
September 19, 2008, 09:04

Believe it or not Dana, I actually consider myself to have "grown up" a LONG time ago. I would never in a million years try to "prove" my personal beliefs. The only place I "worship" is at the "Alter of Science". To me it's mind-blowing enough that the physical laws which govern the universe can actually be expressed in mathematical terms, and that human consciousness can actually derive and understand them!

But I still think that there IS a place for what I call "spirituality". You believe that the Universe is random, and that's fine with me. I would never dream of insulting your view of the world, since it’s based on YOUR personal experiences. When it comes to what we perceive, often times no two people can agree on ANYTHING. We may agree that a particular shade of blue has a wavelength of so many angstroms, but as far as what we actually experience when we SEE that color, well that is something we will never know.

A very wise person once taught me that "Knowledge is structured in Consciousness" and that "Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness". I heartily agree with these this. Everything we know about the universe is ultimately shaped and filtered by our ability to perceive. By consciousness, I am referring strictly to brain wave activity that can be objectively measured. Wakefulness, sleep and the dream state can all be expressed in terms of EEG measurements. Many solid scientific experiments have shown that there are indeed other "alternate" states of consciousness. People practicing various types of meditation have been thoroughly studied for decades now. The results have shown profound changes in brain activity and body chemistry, and more. I myself have been practicing a particular form of meditation for almost 40 years. I once participated in a series of scientific experiments at Harvard Medical School which showed some amazing changes in brain activity. I have also had some extraordinary experiences while meditating

Okay, Big deal. What does anything I have personally experienced have to do with any "Ultimate Reality'? Not much really. My opinions and a few hundred baht will maybe get me a drink somewhere. The point I’m trying to make is that there our perceptions are shaped by what we can experience. In our dreams we might fly through the air. For us during that time, our experiences are 100% “real”. Our dream senses tell us that this is reality. However transferring this perception to what we call the waking world won’t help us float through the air. During deep sleep, the physical world simply vanishes, only to “miraculously” reappear upon reawakening. Which is the “true reality”? Well they all are!

Our beliefs about the physical world have changed dramatically over the centuries. We have gone from an Aristotelian view of the universe to a Newtonian one, to an Einsteinian one. And now even this view is being altered as more experimental data is gained. The random universe you refer to is more amazing than we ever thought possible. Theoretical physicists are talking about multiple universes, where different laws of nature may hold sway. This is the camp where I reside. Partially because of scientific knowledge and partially through my own personal experiences of alternate states of consciousness I have developed my own set of beliefs about “what’s going on”. They are just that; personal beliefs. They cannot be proven. Are my “beliefs” then merely “faith” wrapped up in a different package”? I say no because I am always open to new evidence. If nothing else, I am flexible. I have no interest in shoving in shoving my personal philosophy down anyone’s throat! I will freely admit that my beliefs may be utterly erroneous, but as John Lennon once sang, “Whatever gets you through the night; its all right, all right”. So at the risk of being completely ridiculed let me tell you my opinion of Life, the Universe and Everything. Feel free to disagree, you won’t hurt my feelings.

Okay, I believe in an infinite number of universes, an infinite number of realities, all existing simultaneously. Notions of past, present and future are meaningless from this perspective. There is only the eternal NOW. I believe that all of these universes are based on “pure consciousness”, “pure intelligence”. No God or gods in the personal sense are involved. Our individual consciousnesses are manifestations in the same way as individual particles of matter or bits of energy. Sometimes (and again talking about time is just a convenient way of speaking) universes come into existences. They evolve. Eventually they are reabsorbed into that state of pure potentiality from where they originated. By the way, if this sounds like just some nonsense I’ve dreamed up, try picking up some of Richard Fyneman’s lectures on Quantum Mechanics. Quantum physics accepts the idea of “virtual” particles emerging and disappearing into the “ground state”. In this reality all possibilities have the potential to exist. Is there a “purpose” to all this? Who knows? I would like to believe so, but then again my likes and dislikes are utterly irrelevant. Do we have “souls”? Is there such a thing as reincarnation? I would be foolish to say so, but based on my personal experiences (and here physics offers no help) I believe that some evolutionary process is at play, although I cannot even venture to say what. Whatever the “Ultimate Reality” is, I am stuck here in this reality on this version of planet earth, as are we all. The only certainty we have is that we will indeed die someday. If there is any other existence waiting for us beyond the grave, well we’ll just have to wait and see what it is. It is indeed possible that only eternal nothingness awaits us, although I would like to believe otherwise. In the end though how we behave towards our fellow man here and now is worth any amount of speculation about “how many angels can dance eon the head of a pin”. For me at least, spirituality is a way of looking for humanistic ideals to live by. For others it is an exercise in self delusion. We all make our choices as to how to cope with all. Okay enough babbling for now. I have a class of Mathiyom 3 students waiting with bated breathe for another English lesson. LOL! Undoubtedly this discussion will continue later.


Dana
September 19, 2008, 20:34

Quantum mechanics once understood will oust 'spirituality' but we will first have to endure idiots saying they have a commonality. Everything is baby steps for humans. Have extra terrestrials ever come here? Why would they? We have nothing to offer. Carbon based life forms of retardation level 'intelligence' who 'believe' things. As soon as someone starts to tell me that he 'believes' something I am gone. Kinda makes relationships with women tenuous. All children.
korski
September 20, 2008, 05:27

Here's what little I think I know as someone who teaches evolutionary biology in a university. No one knows if there is a god, and biologists don't address this problem, unless they're overly arrogant like Richard Dawkins. He's a very good mind, just full of sh*t on the god issue. No one knows if there is a god. Having said that, we can, as biologists trace all life back to a single cell. It is also fairly well accepted now that probably the greatest idea of all time is evolution by natural selection; there are literally tens of thousands of empirical studies to back up its major and minor claims. And incidentally, natural selection is such that it probably works in other universes just as it works on earth, assuming there are life forms about. As for beliefs. Well, as one learns in Philosophy 101 these are not testable propositions. So if some says they believe in three-headed dogs, my response is fine now let's go get a beer and talk about recent ping pong pussy we just had. Belief statements are outside the purview of science and the scientific method, so talking about beliefs is little more than a pissing contest. If it makes you feel good to believe in parallel or an infinite number of universes--good. Again, I rather keep things more mundane. I believe a few things about those around me, and I think I know when I'm getting a good lay or a blowjob, and I do believe, with considerable evidence, that the best and cheapest pussy in the world is to be found in SEA. Incidentally, this last belief of mine is a testable proposition, not withstanding what I said previously! With regard to all these higher-order beliefs--I prefer to leave that to others while I enjoy my ice cream, hot nights, nasty women and...well, you get the idea.
sawadee200
September 20, 2008, 09:07

I must admit that mere “beliefs”, without anyway to demonstrate their validity doesn’t hold much water. A healthy skepticism keeps us from routinely being taken in by charlatans or mere fools. Unfortunately there are so many things in our daily existence that we routinely take on faith without even realizing it. Ultimately we are forced as individuals to base what we believe to be true on our sensory perceptions. Often times we base them on what we think “must be” based on past experiences, and come up with conclusions that turn out to be dead wrong. For example: There is a house just down the road from me whose front is painted yellow. Based on what we believe is conventional wisdom we assume that the back of the house is also painted yellow. However in this case that assumption is false. For some unknown reason (at least to me) the back of this particular house is painted orange…..really! Go figure! Our past experiences with houses and their colors have led us astray; yet can you imagine going through life questioning everything that we did not have personal knowledge of? That would quickly lead to a mental breakdown! If you ever read Heinlein’s Stranger In a Strange Land, you may recall his Fair Witnesses, who gave sworn legal testimony base on what they could personally observe. We don’t have any personal visual experience with let’s say the far ultraviolet or the infrared portions of the spectrum, but base of data gathered through instruments we have no problem in accepting these phenomenon. Hell, we aren’t even the ones who perform these scientific observations. As a matter of course we simply “believe” what scientists tell us. In a sense we have “faith” that they are not simply telling us some real whoppers. Of course in fact these observations are repeatable if you have access to the right equipment. That is what science is all about. But for us as individuals we are forced to accept other people’s experience as fact. Again questioning every observation that we did not personally make would lead us to the loony bin. Of such craziness conspiracies are born! “We are all being lied to!” The world of quantum phenomenon runs counter intuitive to our everyday experiences in a Newtonian universe. The more we learn about what’s going on at the subtlest levels of physical existence, the more our minds are blown away. Life truly is more amazing than we can imagine.

So anyway, beliefs are a dime a dozen. It is up to us as individuals to sort them out. We are they ones who have to structure a reality. Hopefully we try to use logical criteria to do so. But in the end we are all left with our personal experiences. What is real? What is not? Who knows? It would be convenient if telepathy actually existed in the here and now and not just in an episode of The X Files. It would be nice to actually know what someone else was experiencing. Okay enough babbling for now. Undoubtedly this discussion will continue. Let’s just leave for now that there is a hell of a lot left unexplained with our current level of knowledge. Until all the missing pieces are there we will always be forced to adopt beliefs based in part on speculation.
mike
September 20, 2008, 11:35

Sawadee,

"When it comes to what we perceive, often times no two people can agree on ANYTHING."

Now that is something I can agree with. :-)
sawadee2000
September 20, 2008, 13:59

Yeah Mike I can agree with that!

Korski I also agree with you that everything I'm yacking about doesn't really mean a thing. It is all just speculation and even I don't take it TOO seriously Actually the only reason I launched into this realm was as a response to Dana. In the end it doesn't matter what any of us "believe". It's enough for me just to get through the day. As long as I can look at myself in the mirror I'm satisfied. It IS nice to talk about all these "deep things" once in a while, preferably over a drink or two (or three). By the way, I think what teach is something worth knowing. The universe is amazing enough without ever having to introduce any deity into the picture. It is sad though that so many people go through their whole lives without EVER asking any of "The Big Questions". There are of course no answers, but that's part of the fun!
steve rosse
September 20, 2008, 17:33

In the end it doesn't matter what any of us "believe".
In the end, all that matters is what we believe.

The universe is amazing enough without ever having to introduce any deity into the picture.
The universe is so amazing, a deity is undeniable.

It is sad though that so many people go through their whole lives without EVER asking any of "The Big Questions"
It's sad that when some people ask the Big Questions, the only answer they can come up with is evolution and the big bang theory.
Dana
September 20, 2008, 21:24

"In the end it doesn't matter what any of us "believe".
In the end, all that matters is what we believe."

I am not picking on Mr. Rosse (honest); just highlighting this idea in a more political way. Hitler (pick your own fool with power) had some beliefs and millions died. Beliefs plus power is something that should be paid attention to. Unlike the harmless middle of the night private crutches we all have, beliefs allied with power should be paid attention to. When someone states their beliefs in public I suddenly become a very good listener. and I make sure I know where the exists are.
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