Fan Mail

By : Steve Rosse
Views : 1537

January 18, 1997
Sanctimonious Steve:
Soon there will be a third reason, apart from pollution and inflation, of not returning to Phuket and that is Steve Ross's (sic) holier than thou column in the Phuket Gazette.
He and Ms. Criswell are also parasites living off the sex industry that we "European rejects" support and their snide remarks are getting quite boring. We know what we are paying for and prefer the Asian deal to the battle of the sexes raging in Europe and the U.S.
I think it is time the Burma Heroines at Talang are replaced by two female sex workers, one on her knees and one on her back.
Finally I should like to point out to Mr. Ross (sic) who boasts of his knowledge of Thai culture dire future of the fruits of his legalized lust will have in a Thailand heading for an economic meltdown.
Peter Pan

And when it was pointed out to him that Steve Rosse and Iris Criswell were one person:
February 19, 1997
Bist du meshugge mensch? Of course I should have recognized the Philip Roth of Phuket, obsessed with zaftigh shiksas. Please do us all a favor and return to Haifa-on-the-Hudson, the capitol of schlock, A.S.A.P.
Peter Pan

This one was addressed to Iris Criswell in 1996.
Hi! Your merciless denigration of your less fortunate Thai sisters who have to sell themselves for socioeconomic reasons even a dumb Eurobitch like you should be able to comprehend by now (and us "victims") leads me to believe you are suffering from advanced penis-envy (ugly men can buy sex, ugly women can't). This could be cured by repeated sessions (give me head till I'm dead) on my couch for a modest fee.
Sigmund F.

March 21, 1997, a letter in response to a letter I sent to a guy who sent me a letter.
Dear Steve:
Please forgive me for not replying to your letter sooner but I did experience some difficulty in translation, as did the other people I showed it to.
However, I think I am smart enough to realise that it was a rather roundabout and obtuse attempt to 'put me down' in some way and make me feel a little foolish. Also, you apparently consider yourself to be some kind of literary 'guru'. I would like, therefore, to acquaint you with the following facts.
I was both a professional cricketer and footballer and also enjoyed some success as an amateur boxer. I am also the holder of several patents and was a nominee for the Australian Achievement Awards in 1984 amongst other things.
What I am saying is, the things I say I have done I have actually done and are documented so I have no need to bullshit about myself now or at any other time. You conclude your letter by asking 'how would I feel about that?'
Well Steve, let me say that I feel the same kind of sadness I feel for anyone who has lost their way and can no longer tell the difference between stupidity and humour. Should you ever have occasion to correspond with me again, please try to find the courage to speak honestly and clearly and not attempt to hide your feelings behind some convoluted, juvenile claptrap.
Yours Sincerely, Graeme Monaghan

A fragment of a full-page, single-spaced, unsigned rant from 1995:
I'm a reader, not a writer: literary jock-sniffers make me drink too fast. When I couldn't take the Post any more, I switched to The Nation about six months ago. I gradually grew accustomed to your column and, of a Sunday morning while waiting for the aspirin to kick in, even came to look forward to the faint whiff of bleeding-heart anarchism. I, for one, appreciate the cultural tight-rope in the column. You are on to something there. The wife and the kid, the farang who use their culture vacuum to wipe their asses with. The Thai who do the same. The prose is usually clean, the emotion controlled, the characterization nice and concise with some good indirect lighting. You should not apologize for a fairly decent joke directed at fucking idiots. I've been coming here for 30 years and, in the pure self-interest of preserving a certain Sunday morning hangover dispersion technique, I would just like to leave you with an old American Zen expression which lies deep within our sacred tradition: Fuck 'Em.

February 27, 1995
Dear Editor:
I am writing re the article of YOUR MISTER STEVE ROSS in the October issue. I am one of the unattractive or as he options emotionally crippled men (on page six column 2 lit 3). During my over twelve years in Phuket I have noticed the Rich and Beautiful as well as the UGLY and CRIPPLES. Either of them may have a fulfilled live behind them. HAVING WORKED HARD FOR 45 OR MORE YEARS DIGGING NUMBER 9 COAL IN THE MINE and most often taken care of a family. Even though or because of it: being unattractive or cripples. BUT THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS. Not so Mr. Steve Ross. He murders them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It takes a Mr. Steve Ross, whose creators must come from EAST ALTZHEIM ON THE WESTBANK, TO INVENT SUCH INSULTS. It takes a Mr. Steve Ross, who may suffer the Dahmer's DNA Syndrom (sic) to add insult to injury. SACK him before he is doing more damage (to Thailand) than good. And before that, let him apologize on the front page for the injustice done and let him buy a one way ticket. Nobody needs people like Steve Ross. (I don't either, though we know each other, thus remaining anonymous is understandable).
Thanks,
YOUR UGLY CRIPLLED OLD CRACKER
The address line automatically added by his fax machine gave his name as Werner Asper. I did not know anybody by that name.

From 1996, and from the woman described in "The Out of Towners" (somebody must have sent her the column):

The light dawns! I understand… You're jealous! How amusing. That's why you continue to make these assumptions about us, because they apply to you! You poor, pathetic, little, gnome. We can live in the U.S. anytime we choose. We could've, also, stayed in that backwater you're stuck in, and chose not to. That's what's killing you, isn't it? Unlike you schmucks, who marry Thai women, or get stuck with the infamous "Thai business partner", we were able to leave.
I wondered what the hell your motive could be, to answer a polite and complimentary, postcard, with rude, and obnoxious, bile, but your last message, clued me in. You are not only stuck and pathetic, You're childish, too!
What with the perfect weather, inexpensive housing, excellent schools, incredible food, and the fact that we have residency (she means in Mexico-ed.), we've really nothing to be sad about. But you do, don't ya, Sport? Well, whereas, you don't have my respect, you do have my sympathy.
Buena Suerte, you obviously need it.
Sincerely, Beth.

November 3, 1995 fragments of a two-page, single-spaced rant that shows a shocking lack of understanding of human anatomy:
I have read several issues of your Phuket Gazette and must respond to writer Steve Rosse, who I have also had the discomfort of reading in an occasional Bangkok newspaper.
Steve Rosse needs to get a life, get out of his cups and hide a way bars, get out of Thailand and get real. This man is not living on our planet and your occasional invitation for him to leave his droppings on your monthly sheet is not enough justification for his waste. His recent column grouping stinking fish with three day old tourists is an insult to the visitors to Thailand who love the people, love the country and would love to live there, if they could easily break the ties of their lackluster stressed out lives in other parts of the world.
He intimates that every beach is loaded with "bimbo's" who parade their "glands" shows his ignorance and cynicism of attractive women who not only enjoy sunning in Thailand's marvelous year round climate, but who bear breasts that are "muscles", not glands. Where does this Steve Rosse come from? Because he has a Thai wife and has lived there long enough to criticize everything that comes before his screen, doesn't qualify him for intelligence, sense or logical thinking. Rosse is grouching through a planet that never ceases to show him how stupid, uncaring, conscienceless the "other guy" is.
Get him out of Phuket and out of Thailand he's been interred too long and turned into more than a "four day old carp" to use his words, more like a five year entombed alligator. Rosse doesn't understand the "real" falangs. He's developed his own brand of Thai-onizm, better known as "Rosse Unrealism".
Do the Phuket Gazette readers a service. Send Rosse home. Reject his other-planet, unreal people stories. He doesn't deserve beautiful Thailand. Get him back on a real street. Perhaps leave his Thai wife, so she can get back to the real culture, without this cynical, down in the dumps, things will never get better, unreal falang.
(signed)
Alex West

From a postcard in 1996:

Rosse:
You suck.
Not A. Fan

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If you enjoyed this you can easily purchase Steve Rosse's book 'Thai Vignettes' online here at Bangkok Books.com: http://www.bangkokbooks.com/php/product/product.php?product_id=000025&sub_cate_name=&sub_cate_id=

Most books published by Bangkok Book House are available at Asia Books, Bookazine, B2S, Kinokuniya, Suriwong Chiang Mai, DK Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Lampang; all airports, many hotel outlets, supermarkets (Villa, Friendship Pattaya), The Books (Phuket, Krabi), Singapore including airport, Hong Kong airport and many smaller independent outlets throughout Thailand (www.bangkokbooks.com).

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Comments / Feedback

Dana
November 3, 2008, 01:52

I made two huge mistakes with my Thailand experience that can not be undone now. Maybe my example will keep others from making the same mistakes. Number one I did not take a record photo of every woman who gave me some of her time. A feel this as a huge loss.

And number two I did not print out and store in three ring binders every email I received regarding my writing. Again a loss.

korski
November 3, 2008, 07:00

Easy to see why this is a hit on your ego. Although there is some pretty heavy-handed stuff here, much of it fits with the same judgmental Steve we have seen here recently. I for one, and I think I count Dana among others in my camp, like it when the moralizing is kept under lock and key. And if for no other reason than we cannot get inside others' minds--needs, desires, histories, etc., whether we're talking about mongers, bar girls, or the occasional married dude getting some exotic sugar behind his wife's back.

steve rosse
November 3, 2008, 20:41

"I.... like it when the moralizing is kept under lock and key." Too bad, Dude. Commercial sex is tawdry and low class. No matter if I'm doing it or you're doing it or the Governor of New York is doing it. I'm not telling anybody not to do it. I'm just pointing out that it is what it is.

Ditto bad writing. Bad writing is an offense to all Gods that exist, and certainly an offense to the reader. If you try real hard and still fail, I'll send you flowers. But if you dash off some crap, post it on line, then go around calling yourself a writer, I'll tell you you're wrong. No Emperors are going to wear invisible clothes in my presence. You don't like it, don't read my comments. It's that easy.

Dana
November 3, 2008, 23:17

"Commercial sex is tawdry and low class."

So is posting opinions as if they were laws of physics that admit of no exceptions. Many wonderful women have shared their time with me. Money exchanged hands. Neither one of us was tawdry and low class. Yes, they were exceptions; but we both deserve the right to have had exceptional moments and exceptional relationships in our lives. I find Mr. Rosse's broad brushing offensive.

"No Emperors are going to wear invisible clothes in my presence."

Ok, now this is just officially spooky.

korski
November 4, 2008, 00:22

"I.... like it when the moralizing is kept under lock and key." Too bad, Dude. Commercial sex is tawdry and low class. No matter if I'm doing it or you're doing it or the Governor of New York is doing it. I'm not telling anybody not to do it. I'm just pointing out that it is what it is.

Ditto bad writing. Bad writing is an offense to all Gods that exist, and certainly an offense to the reader. If you try real hard and still fail, I'll send you flowers. But if you dash off some crap, post it on line, then go around calling yourself a writer, I'll tell you you're wrong. No Emperors are going to wear invisible clothes in my presence. You don't like it, don't read my comments. It's that easy.
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I guess you like to break the world into low class and high class. I'm less eager to do so, and don't in fact feel that women who trade sex for money are low class. You, apparently, just don't understand what it means to be poor, really poor. But, hey, thanks for the flowers anyway. I didn't make a comment about bad writing, so don't know why you come in with this comment. I tend to agree that there is a lot of bad writing, but there is also great variability in what people who know what good writing is consider to be more than just okay. Depends on one's purpose. Here you also seem awfully confident about your judgments, more so than I suspect the Emperor would find tolerable. Incidentally, in my particular case, and to knowledge, and despite having my name on a dozen books, I don't think I've ever advertised myself as a "writer" to anyone, not once. If you're a writer, well, bravo.

BKKSW
November 4, 2008, 01:27

"Ditto bad writing. Bad writing is an offense to all Gods that exist, and certainly an offense to the reader. "

No offense Steve, I've been lurking reading the comments here for a long while and you rarely say anything pertaining to "writing" aside from punctuation and syntax hits. You obviously have an opinion, but aside from insults and side swipes you seem unable to express yourself well enough for the recipient of your ego to get anything of value from your comments. Which begs the question why you offer them?

Writing is about content, style, rhythm and maintaining the readers interest without putting them to sleep. It's rarely, except perhaps in extreme cases, about punctuation and syntax. Explain how the writer fails in these areas and you'll have something valuable to offer.

I think you'd make a good proofreader.. Excellent perhaps..

steve rosse
November 4, 2008, 08:24

"Many wonderful women have shared their time with me." They didn't share their time with you, they sold it to you.

I suppose there are exceptions, but they are so rare as to be statistical impossibilities. Dana, I'm not saying you should not enjoy what you do. Maybe you are high class and so is she, but the act of selling human flesh is low class. It's not a proud moment for anybody involved. Do you brag about it anywhere but here? Do you tell your relatives about all the hookers you've purchased when you go home for Thanksgiving? If you ever got a date with a non-professional woman, would you entertain her with stories of Nana Plaza? NO! Because it's something best kept secret, hidden, in its place. Enjoy it by all means, but don't for a moment think that it's just as normal as going to the opera or painting your garage. Hell, Dude, that's half the fun! Weren't you the one saying it was more fun because it was risky? Why do you think it's risky (if it is)? Because it's naughty, it's dirty, it's forbidden. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. You can make Web sites devoted to prostitution, but it's still prostitution. It's still low class and tawdry.

Fanta
November 4, 2008, 10:01

Since the reader is not privy to what, precisely, these emails are responding to, it can only be presumed that they are posted with the belief that the author of that to which they respond (and, in particular, the author's 'sensibility' that elicited the emails) is important enough to carry the submission. Given that that to which the emails respond, and the emails themselves, is over 10 years old, one would have to think that the sensibility's self-regard, its tone and tenor, is also. Or else the piece is gentle self-mockery - which I doubt is the case.

steve rosse
November 4, 2008, 12:36

"women who trade sex for money are low class" Guys, you keep misreading my comments. I never said that all hookers are low class, or that all johns are low class. I've said, over and over, that the activity of prostitution is low class. The participants may be whatever or whoever they are. But the act of buying a human being, even if it's only for a few minutes, is not something to be proud of. If you don't like calling it low class, pick another expression, sleazy, nasty, demeaning, brutish, whatever you want. But for God's sake, guys, recognize the true nature of what we do.

I'd love to buy a couple of your books, Korski. Where can I get them?

steve rosse
November 4, 2008, 20:38

"Writing is about content, style, rhythm and maintaining the readers interest without putting them to sleep." Okay, if we put the possessive apostrophe into "readers" this sentence would make some sense, but we'd need to move "style" to the front of the list. That's why we're recommending you buy, and READ, "The Elements of Style" by Strunk and White. Grammar, syntax, spelling and punctuation are the DNA of a sentence, Steve, and until you master them you can't begin to work on content, rhythm and being interesting. The reader's interest won't be maintained if he can't understand what the author is saying. EB White was a contributor to, and editor of, The New Yorker magazine for more than 60 years. He discovered JD Salinger, and countless other authors. I will take his instruction on writing over yours any day, Steve.

BW
November 5, 2008, 00:18

The exchange of sex for money has gone on since the dawn of time. What do you call a woman who sells sex to only one regular customer? A wife.

I attend church and read the Bible, so I am well versed in the teachings against prostitution, but I am also well versed in the teachings of not judging others. You can judge the behavior itself, but that's another discussion.

That Preamble aside, I actually have more respect for most prostitutes than married women b/c with a prostitute you get something in return for your hard earned money. Virtually every married/once married man on this planet can relate to the wife who, after having received EVERYTHING THAT SHE WANTED on her to-do list on a given Saturday (husband doing yardwork, taking her shopping, dinner, drinks, inane chick-flick, etc.), comes home and pulls the "sorry I'm too tired/not in the mood" BS when it's time to honor her end of the bargain. And the women know damn well what they're doing.

In the West, men are expected to have certain responsibilities in the marriage, but the Femi-Nazis have brainwashed our young women into believing that they are entitled to a free ride.

korski
November 5, 2008, 04:46

I suppose there are exceptions, but they are so rare as to be statistical impossibilities. Dana, I'm not saying you should not enjoy what you do. Maybe you are high class and so is she, but the act of selling human flesh is low class.
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This is profoundly and fundamentally a moral judgment and one that Dana and I and many others do not share. Steve: you speak as someone brought up in a Christian environment, one which you are unable to shed or put aside when thinking of hookers and their clients. People like me (I'll let Dana speak for himself) who were also raised in a Christian environment (Catholic in my case, I was even a stellar altar boy) vehemently deny the underpinnings of those kinds of moral judgments that you are both happy and smug about. I do not see any difference between selling/buying access to a woman's sexual favors and purchasing the services a plumber or mechanic: they provide a service I need, I pay them. Because hookers and plumbers and mechanics have less education than I do, I do not see them as low-class. You, obviously, see something quite "sacred" about the act of sex, and "profane" when with a hooker; these are views that I held when younger but have not held for a very long time. If you feel comfortable with your moral judgments, fine. I and others (like Dana) do wish you would keep them to yourself and not try to impose them on people who not share your values. Tolerance--on this issue, and on varied styles of writing--apparently does not come easily to you.

korski
November 5, 2008, 04:49

I'd love to buy a couple of your books, Korski. Where can I get them?
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Send me an email at korski1@cox.net and a promise that you will not reveal my real identity and I will tell you how to get my books.

korski
November 5, 2008, 05:03

That's why we're recommending you buy, and READ, "The Elements of Style" by Strunk and White. Grammar, syntax, spelling and punctuation are the DNA of a sentence, Steve, and until you master them you can't begin to work on content, rhythm and being interesting. The reader's interest won't be maintained if he can't understand what the author is saying. EB White was a contributor to, and editor of, The New Yorker magazine for more than 60 years. He discovered JD Salinger, and countless other authors. I will take his instruction on writing over yours any day, Steve.
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No! Strunk and White is valuable, but there are far too many kinds of very good writing that break all kinds of Strunk and White rules. And, once we're into this "plastic" environment, content and good story and narrative flow are what matters. On the whole, BKKSW is spot on; and he's right about what you probably do best, and should do for a living, Steve: proofread for spelling and obvious grammatical errors.

Dana
November 5, 2008, 06:16

Ok, I'll stick my head up above the trench. I'll take the hit. Presenting ideas in text without a single technical error is a worthy goal. But surely communicating the idea always comes first. If someone is shouting FIRE do you question whether he is using a period or an exclamation mark? I believe the idea trumps all else always and to posture that no text is worth reading unless Strunk and White have deemed it technically perfect is just plain stupid.

Who can think of some examples of modern or not modern writing that compelled readers to keep on reading in spite of indifferent or poorly executed punctuation? Here is a hint. Old Christian hymns printed in the hymnals. Random or no punctuation at the end of every line and in many cases brilliant writing.

lookpapa
November 5, 2008, 06:27

"I.... like it when the moralizing is kept under lock and key."(korski)
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I'm not surprised but in Thai related websites advocating and promoting mongering is open slather. Anyone not partaking is called a "moraliser" like it was some kind of crime. Monogamy is not a crime , it's a choice for people who prefer committment . Why should mongerers shout their choice from the rooftops? They don't do it at home but in Thailand they flaunt it as some kind of achievement. You prefer moralizing under lock and key and I prefer you don't air your dirty linen in public. The bottom line is that neither of us will do what the other one prefers.

BKKSW
November 5, 2008, 08:01

"kay, if we put the possessive apostrophe into "readers" t"
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It has been my experience that those who can write.. write.

And then we have those who dwell on apostrophe's and other technicals that proof readers and editors normally take care of.

Where you camp is quite clear.

BKKSW
November 5, 2008, 08:31

"I will take his instruction on writing over yours any day, Steve. "

Sigh.. I wasn't critiquing your writing.

Reading is an essential skill, a skill necessary to recognize that which you critique.

It was very clear I was directly commenting on your style of criticism and your lack of meaningful feedback in the process.

But since you brought it up.. No matter how often you quote a reference book, or an author, it doesn't change a thing about the way YOU write. Your stories stand on their own.. or they don't. I'm not particularly impressed with most of what you write, find most of it of not very interesting, but my ego doesn't prevent me from acknowledging this could simply be my individual preference and that others could very much enjoy your work. I would never pretend to judge others in your image. There are billions of readers out there.. they all like different things. Get used to it.

steve rosse
November 5, 2008, 11:40

"what you probably do best, and should do for a living, Steve: proofread for spelling and obvious grammatical errors."
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I have been an editor and proofreader in the past, and my current job involves a lot of editing skills. But ANY serious writer has to begin by being a proofreader. Half the stuff posted on this site is unreadable because of knuckleheaded mistakes. Not stylistic choices made by artists in a plastic creative environment, just plain old blunders. Bad spelling, bad grammar, bad punctuation. Don't be like PeeWee Herman, jumping up after a tumble and saying "I meant to do that."

steve rosse
November 5, 2008, 11:47

"If you feel comfortable with your moral judgments, fine. I and others (like Dana) do wish you would keep them to yourself and not try to impose them on people who not share your values."
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God, people, either read the comments carefully or don't read them at all. I have never made any moral judgments on this site, at least not as regards prostitution. I have said that commercial sex is low class; I NEVER said it was evil. I have never said the people involved were evil, or even the slightest bit bad. I never said that prostitutes are low class because they have little education. (Where the heck did you come up with that?) I have said that the act of buying or selling a human being is low class, not something to be proud of. It's like picking your nose or masturbation; it feels good, it may even be necessary, but you don't do it on a crowded bus. That is not a moral judgment. It's simply an observation. An observation shared by everybody in the world who does not pay for sex. Even the hookers know what they do is low class, that's why they take off all their jewelery when they go home for Songkran and tell their family they work in a restaurant.

steve rosse
November 5, 2008, 11:55

"Steve: you speak as someone brought up in a Christian environment..."
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If you look waaaaaaaay up at the top of this page, you'll find a couple letters from readers who make anti-Semitic remarks toward me. That's cuz I'm Jewish. Sorry, you can't pin this one on the bible. I believe that prostitution is low class because I lived among, and wrote about, prostitutes for seven solid years. Not a three-week vacation, not a three-week vacation every year for a few years. Every day for seven years, I ate with them, slept with them, read their mail, went to their weddings, visited them in the hospital and attended their funerals. Some of them were very high-class men and women, but they sure had a crappy, low-class job.

BKKSW
November 5, 2008, 22:34

"I believe that prostitution is low class because I lived among, and wrote about, prostitutes for seven solid years. Not a three-week vacation, not a three-week vacation every year for a few years. Every day for seven years, I ate with them, slept with them, read their mail, went to their weddings, visited them in the hospital and attended their funerals. Some of them were very high-class men and women, but they sure had a crappy, low-class job. "

Perhaps this just reflects your taste in whores? I'm just sayin...

Interesting show from the U.K. called "Secret Diaries of a Call Girl." You can find it here: http://eztv.it/shows/630/secret-diary-of-a-call-girl-the-itv2-uk/

Belle I think.. would disagree..

BKKSW
November 5, 2008, 22:43

"But ANY serious writer has to begin by being a proofreader."

Reaaaalllly? Perhaps this is where you've gone wrong..

"Half the stuff posted on this site is unreadable because of knuckleheaded mistakes."

Is it your ego preventing you from reading half of the stuff on this site, or do you really not know what the author is trying to say? Think carefully before answering this..

Marc Holt
November 6, 2008, 19:34

Reading through those letters I couldn't help wondering why Mr Rosse would choose to pillory himself so abjectly. Obviously, he must enjoy being whipped in public. Reminds me of a Carry On movie I saw where Kenneth was being whipped.....Oh! No! No, no! No, no, no! Oh! Yeeeeeeeeeeessssss!

Are you scraping the bottom of your literary barrel now Steve? Maybe it's time you tried writing something new instead of serving up these awful rehashes. Many of them are so dated it's painful to read them.

Marc Holt
November 8, 2008, 05:30

LP as usual you assume far too much. But then why aren't I surprised? Try critiquing the writing, not the writers in future.

Jago Turner
November 10, 2008, 21:38

The Elements of Style is a great book. It was the first book about grammar I ever read and I've read it at least once a year ever since I bought it as an eighteen year old wannabe writer. But things change. Language changes. The rules of grammar shift. The semi colon and the colon may be cherished but if you use them too openly many readers will immediately identify you as belonging to an older generation.

While there are still many places where grammar and the clarity of meaning good grammar brings is paramount there is more and more of a culture where people want to read a voice on the page that replicates the voice of a good friend they are on equal terms with.

On the thornier topic of the morality or immorality of prostitution. It's a circular argument. It'll always have it's place in footnotes to stories set in a country or among an expat population where it seems part of everyone's life but talking about it as right or wrong, high class or low class, moral or immoral makes no sense to me.

The perception of prostitution as a crime in my country (the UK) probably has a lot to do with the idea that women are being cruelly exploited or trafficked. Religious morality plays a role but not a big one. Whores are victims of serial killers or junkies or Romanians kept locked in seedy brothels. Men who go to Thailand to find young women are often seen through the prism of pedophilia or the ideology of having an overdeveloped sense of male entitlement. Most opinions are formed from a distance and based on broad notions of right and wrong.

Personally I sometimes find prostitution an ugly thing. Sometimes I find it an almost poetically beautiful thing. Sometimes I see tragedy in bored uneducated girls dancing for men who should, perhaps, know better. Sometimes I see everyone having a good time and nobody losing a thing. The one thing about prostitution is that, as a subject, I am never bored by it. I often see an intense kind of joyful life in the interplay of exploitation and genuine emotion from both punter and hooker but then someone takes it seriously and it spills over into something truly disgusting which destroys everyone.

sisterray
July 9, 2011, 08:19

Mid. Life. Crisis.

Novomundo
July 10, 2011, 02:41

There's hardly anything remotely like a flattering line in these letters, and many of them turn to the same point often heard here: your disgust with "sad" and lost farang, not least because they go with bar girls. I'm curious why you want to show us these? A form of masochism? Don't you have any letters that are flattering, that speak to your insights, what you saw that others didn't, the quality of your prose?

steve rosse
July 10, 2011, 07:25

"anything remotely like a flattering line..." Come on, Dude. If I put the flattering ones here, you'd call me an egoist. I didn't keep the flattering ones for the reason explained in the introduction, very clearly I thought. Try to keep up. These are ego-deniers. Monks don't meditate looking at flowers and kittens.

I posted them here so you could see that I've held, and published, the same views on prostitution for at least 15 years, and the monkeys have been throwing their poop in response ever since. They did it in The Nation in 1994, they did it on this Web site in 2008, and they're doing it here again. There is nothing new under the sun.

Airmail
July 11, 2011, 05:22

"I've held, and published, the same views on prostitution for at least 15 years,"

Hear this Mr. Rosse: I'm a very happily married man for the past 12 years.You could say I'm in marital bliss so in this respect I've achieved a bit more than you. Nevertheless I've got nothing against prostitution. It serves a niche in the needs of some men at times of their life. As long as the prostitutes are not coerced ito it and act as free agents we have a good trade. Btw, I'm also in favour of abortion on demand. People should have the last say about their bodies. Do I think prostitution is uplifting (no pun intended)...no way. Your crusade for the past 15 years against prostitution has no result. That in itself should tell you something about an exercise in futility. Belabouring a personal point of view can be boring and tiresome. Obviously you haven't realised this in fifteen years and still going.

steve rosse
July 11, 2011, 10:05

"Your crusade for the past 15 years against prostitution has no result." Jesus, am I speaking Swahili here? Or are you guys purposely misreading my posts just to provoke me into throwing some poop?

Look, I'll speak slowly and clearly. Try to pay attention.

I've never been on a crusade "against prostitution." I don't care who you pay to suck your dick. I've never said a word against the commercial sex industry.

I've only written about the sad, deluded, emotionally crippled men who think that paying for sex makes them some kind of big shot. All I've ever done is point out the selfishness and self delusion of men who think prostitution is by golly just as fun as a roller coaster and just as healthy as oatmeal with bananas.

My point is that it's an expensive, dangerous and low class activity that demeans and dehumanizes all parties involved. That is self evident to me, and to that majority of the world's population who don't pay people to suck their dicks. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I'm not saying women don't have the right to sell their bodies.

I'm just saying that when you go home for Thanksgiving, you tell your family all about your happy marriage and you DON'T tell Mom and grandpa and little Timmy about the girl or boy or dog you paid to suck your dick last night. Right? There's a reason you don't talk about it anywhere but here and a few Web sites like this, right?

I fall back on the same analogy I've posted here many times over the past four years: Sure, prostitution serves a need. So does toilet paper. But you don't find Web sites like Stickman's Toilet Paper where emotionally damaged men BRAG about how much toilet paper they use.

Novomundo
July 11, 2011, 11:34

"I've only written about the sad, deluded, emotionally crippled men who think that paying for sex makes them some kind of big shot. All I've ever done is point out the selfishness and self delusion of men who think prostitution is by golly just as fun as a roller coaster and just as healthy as oatmeal with bananas."

Don't you ever get tired of repeating this same line about emotionally crippled men? The only emotionally crippled man I know is living a lonely life in Iowa, making judgments about the lives of others, and with only his hand to keep him happy.

GoingPostal
July 11, 2011, 13:54

"Belabouring a personal point of view can be boring and tiresome."

Well sure, but don't you think you voiced your personal point of view for the same reason Steve Rosse has been voicing his? After all, you could have said the same thing without your personal views and not been any less effective. What's the draw?

"There's a reason you don't talk about it anywhere but here and a few Web sites like this, right? "

Probably more interesting is not why they 'don't' talk about it, but rather 'why' they do. Of course this is self-evident, but no less interesting.

Steve Rosse
July 11, 2011, 19:29

"The only emotionally crippled man I know is living a lonely life in Iowa..." Really? I'm the ONLY emotionally crippled man you know? You don't get out of the house much, do you?

Airmail
July 12, 2011, 05:13

"Well sure, but don't you think you voiced your personal point of view for the same reason Steve Rosse has been voicing his?"

Actually for the opposite reasons...and not for 15 years plus. That's belabouring.

Steve Rosse
July 12, 2011, 09:35

"15 years plus. That's belabouring" Hmmmm. The Buddha achieved enlightenment at age 35 and achieved Nirvana at age 80, so he voiced his singular opinion, unchanged, for 45 years. Was he belaboring the point? Sir Paul McCartney has been singing silly love songs for 50 years, is he belaboring the point? As long as this is what I believe, this is what I will express. You can always choose not to read my posts, if I'm boring you. They're easy to spot, they have my name on them. Just let your eyes slide right past them and instead read somebody's opinion on whether the bar girls in Fresno make better wives than the bar girls in Cairo. That conversation never gets dull.

Airmail
July 12, 2011, 13:32

Ok, so we know what you believe Mr.Rosse...already!

Novomundo
July 13, 2011, 05:20

Just let your eyes slide right past them and instead read somebody's opinion on whether the bar girls in Fresno make better wives than the bar girls in Cairo. That conversation never gets dull.
---------------------------
Now this does strike me as an interesting topic, since I have not had the pleasure of knowing bar girls in either Fresno or Cairo. Perhaps the exchange will address the issue of why some bar girls do make good wives?

Steve Rosse
July 13, 2011, 08:43

"so we know what you believe Mr.Rosse...already!" Dude, you telling me not to comment on my own submission? You click on my story on the home page, scroll all the way to the bottom, follow a thread through FORTY comments that span three years and then you say you aren't interested in what I have to say? That's a lot of effort to read a comment that you KNOW is going to hurt your feelings, or make you angry, or bore you. Wouldn't it be simpler just not to make that first click?

GoingPostal
July 13, 2011, 09:23

"Ok, so we know what you believe Mr.Rosse...already! "

Sure. And he's even predictable, but so is most everyone who regularly comments.

I look at it this way. Are there so many comments that his comments on "the same ol' thing" get in the way of you reading the others? If he stopped posting the comments, and the next person stopped posting what bothered someone else, and then the next person, etc.. Soon there would be no comments, and in effect exchanges would dry up. So I see belaboring someone about what they post is counterproductive to a healthy exchange system.

Airmail
July 14, 2011, 05:20

Over 30% out of forty comments by the author. I reckon he likes to promote himself and his views. I like reading all comments..once or twice. So Going Postal, what are you saying, that with one person dropping out the others couldn't continue and it'd all dry up? Is that your proposition? Interesting to note that this sub got a second life after 3 years when Admin put it back up. Also interesting to read that 3 years ago Mr.Rosse stated that for 7 solid years he lived among prostitutes. A low class environment yet he chose to hack it for 7 years. We make our beds and we lay in it.

GoingPostal
July 14, 2011, 12:33

"So Going Postal, what are you saying, that with one person dropping out the others couldn't continue and it'd all dry up? Is that your proposition? "

Of course not. I thought I was very clear. If you pick off one, then another, and another. Soon there is no one left. And you might not do it directly with the person leaving, watching the way others are treated is often enough to do the trick.

Yet, let's be honest. This is a monger site cut and dry. One side is supported by the overwhelming majority of participants. The other is almost always supported by Steve Rosse. Whose views are really being belabored? His views only bother you because you find them offensive for some reason. The views supporting mongering don't offend you perhaps for the same reason, so they go unnoticed. But not to an outside observer.

Airmail
July 14, 2011, 16:07

"This is a monger site cut and dry." I disagree.This is not a monger site and Thailand is not a brothel. I don't find Steve's views offensive in fact I'm not a monger but I tolerate mongers. I tolerate their choices. Rather I don't care , it's their business. I'm not judgemental about what grown men do. My issue is not with Steves' views per se but his vehemence. We're all entitled to our views and life choices so how many times do we have to ram it down others' throats? That's what I was all about....already. :-)

GoingPostal
July 14, 2011, 21:49

"but his vehemence."

One mans vehemence is another man's enthusiasm.

But I must admit, I see your point.

sisterray
July 15, 2011, 14:18

I'll take post 45.
I find the whole neon world fascinating. A great inspiration for writing fiction. Some people like trees and lakes and the idea of true love. I do too. But given the choice give me the cities where there are lies and beautiful women for sale. Give me pollution. Give me the massage-lady making four-k a day when she couldn't make that in a month back on the farm. Some people think that society evolves upwards towards some unreachable point of social correctness. Historians and history disagree.
What Steve is trying to say is that people have the choice to partake in the red night or not. He does not but many do. I see no conflict. None at all.

Steve Rosse
July 15, 2011, 18:48

"...people have the choice to partake in the red night or not. He does not but many do." Welll, there is no "red night" in Iowa, but if there was, I'd be first in line. I never said I wouldn't pay for sex. I just said that when I do it, I am not in denial about the nature of what I'm doing.

Novomundo
July 16, 2011, 21:41

I just said that when I do it, I am not in denial about the nature of what I'm doing.

I continue to be confused about your curious sense of guilt. You mean you don't think you were "paying" for sex when you were married? Come on! Then it was a hell of a lot more expensive, and you're still paying for it, and not even getting it.

Steve Rosse
July 17, 2011, 02:47

"You mean you don't think you were "paying" for sex when you were married?" No, not at all. My marriage was never about sex, not that it's any of your business, or at all germane to the thread. (It always tickles me how people who won't divulge anything at all about themselves on this site, including something as basic as their name, are eager to tell me all about me and my life. "You" this and "you" that. Like they really know me.)

But I digress. Since my life is so interesting to you, Mysterious Stranger Who Is Probably A 12-Year-Old Girl In Taiwan, I'll tell you that no, my marriage was about reaching a point in my career in Thailand where I could no longer remain single and my ex resigning herself to the fact that no Thai man wants to marry a woman who makes more money than he does. Sex was a byproduct of the marriage, an afterthought. Nothing I paid for, and not something she thought important enough to put on her list of things I had to pay her for.

Sorry, little Taiwanese girl. Swing and a miss.

GoingPostal
July 17, 2011, 04:26

"You mean you don't think you were "paying" for sex when you were married? Come on! Then it was a hell of a lot more expensive, and you're still paying for it, and not even getting it. "

I pity the man who has come to this point in his life where he actually believes this. And I'm not saying you don't. I'm only saying if life has brought you to this belief, then I pity you.

Airmail
July 17, 2011, 06:15

"paying" for sex ...

My wife and I have joint accounts. She's got a job and the income is paid into that account. I'm not working. So who is paying who? The lines are blurred. If Novomundo is in fact single he should neve get married.He's got the wrong concept about marriage. Maybe he's got a wrong concept about life when he brings everything down to a transaction. Some things in life are part of give and take. A lot of things in life are intangible. Try love. Maybe on this site it's a dirty, four letter word.Maybe here lust is the operative word which is a commodity. Ok,we pay for commodities. Maybe this cleared it up for confused Novomundo.

Fanta
July 17, 2011, 07:34

In what sense are these letters to the author "Ego Deniers"? Given the content of the letters and the construction of the submission, it seems that they function in a very different (even opposite) manner.

There are a number of reason that someone would stare at pictures of decomposing corpses. One is is to be reminded that sooner rather than later they too will be a decomposing corpse - so better not be too disgusted by such. Another is to look at them in order to draw a firm distinction between the decomposing corpse and one's lovely animate body. In this submission the letters to the author function in the second way, not the the first. In this sense, far from being "ego deniers" the letters function as "ego confirmation" - i.e., I'm not like the idiots who responded to my articles. Those idiots are monkeys throwing their own sh*t the author says in a comment above. This hardly constitutes a good example of functional "ego denial" so why would the author blindly think that it does?

I've no idea what was in the newspaper pieces that elicited the responses included in the submission, but my meditation teacher told me that I shouldn't think myself clever for consistently making the same dogs bark in the same way when walking home.

Steve Rosse
July 17, 2011, 11:32

"Given the content of the letters and the construction of the submission, it seems that they function in a very different (even opposite) manner."

You're absolutely right, Mr. or Ms. Fanta. In fact, your comment is the most insightful thing on this page, and I include my own comments in that list. Ego has always been my problem, and remains my problem. Well, one of my problems.

GoingPostal
July 18, 2011, 02:05

"I shouldn't think myself clever for consistently making the same dogs bark in the same way when walking home. "

I love your posts. Keep them up. Delightful style!

Though, I must admit I thought this part was obvious. I was thinking (perhaps wrongly) everyone else saw it too, but didn't want to go in that direction.

Everyone has personality flaws. And if they're flaws or not depends on your frame of reference. Friends and close associates accept flaws among each other.

Airmail
July 18, 2011, 04:49

"your comment is the most insightful thing on this page, and I include my own comments in that list. Ego has always been my problem, and remains my problem. Well, one of my problems".

Yep, this is insightful too. We all suffer from this as without egos we wouldn't be. Arrogance is even more problematic.
I agree with Fanta about the piece being "ego confirmation" or reverse justification/ self validation but the author doesn't "blindly" think it is. I think he was trying to hoodwink us. You know the saying; "he protesteth too much"?

BTW. He says "..and I include my own comments in that list". I had a big smile about that... perfectly revealing. Talking about insightful, hey, include me in!

Novomundo
July 19, 2011, 08:29

Sex was a byproduct of the marriage, an afterthought. Nothing I paid for, and not something she thought important enough to put on her list of things I had to pay her for.

Sorry, little Taiwanese girl. Swing and a miss.

I know, you never had sex. Just like me. Okay, I believe you, or believe that you only had it once a week. We all pay for it, it is only a question of whether we pay up front or on the installment plan. All men know that it is cheaper paying up front.

Taiwanese girl? You"re getting close. Keep guessing.

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